From Rock Bottom to Top Biller: Cathy Stewart’s Playbook for Elite Recruiting Success

Benjamin Menna [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the.

Cathy Stewart [00:00:02]:
Elite Recruiter Podcast, is this the right fit for them? I would rather walk away from money and not place somebody than place a wrong person with an organization. When things go wrong with a job order. When things go wrong with a candidate, it's never really 100%. But if you act as if you are 100% responsible for what happens, you're going to go so much farther than blaming somebody else. Oh, it's a bad job order. Oh, it's a bad client. Oh, it's a crappy candidate. And you know, that might be some of it, but the reality is, what did you miss?

Benjamin Menna [00:00:41]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements. Recruiters. Imagine having a recruiting sidekick that works 24 hours a day. Meet Pin, your AI powered assistant that never sleeps. Pin combs through over 850 million candidate profiles to find perfect fits for your clients, even those hard to find unicorns. It then engages them across email, LinkedIn and SMS with smart outreach that gets nearly half of candidates to respond. And PIN doesn't stop there.

Benjamin Menna [00:01:21]:
It automatically screens resumes with pinpoint precision and handles the back and forth of interview scheduling for you. It's like having an extra team member who never clocks out so you can fill roles faster and focus on closing deals. Visit pin.com to book your demo today. I am so excited about this episode because every single one of us as a recruiter, what happens to us, we fall off the course. Things come crashing down. And we're going to talk about Kathy's story. What kind of happened to her, the realization that she had and the realization that she had that took her to be one of the top billers in the entire United States. But man, I am so excited to have Kathy Stewart.

Benjamin Menna [00:01:57]:
Welcome to the podcast, Kathy.

Cathy Stewart [00:01:58]:
Thank you. Excited to be here. Thanks.

Benjamin Menna [00:02:01]:
All right, so real quick, quick rundown, a little bit about yourself and like, what industry you focus on.

Cathy Stewart [00:02:06]:
So I have been recruiting since 2008. I started in the Great Recession, right before the Great Recession, so it was super hard and I just thought that was the way it was recruiting. So that's. I feel like kind of one of those initial things. I started when it was hard, so it only got easier. Right. My niche is in senior living, so I recruit executives that run retirement communities and their key leadership roles, as well as regional VP C suite folks, too. I do a combination of retained as well as contingent search.

Cathy Stewart [00:02:36]:
And I joined Pinnacle in 2018, which was literally a game changer for anybody needs. Everybody. Anybody who wants to be fabulous needs to go that route.

Benjamin Menna [00:02:48]:
And we'll definitely talk about that. So I gotta ask, like, you got started in the great Recession. How did you end up in this space, like, of recruiting, especially in a down market?

Cathy Stewart [00:02:57]:
So, first of all, I have a master's degree in music education, so all good music educators become recruiters, right? Like, who knew? I mean, recruiting, right? But I feel like if I could recruit middle school people to sing, middle school boys in particular, I can do anything, right? As a recruiter, that was the first thing. So that was part one of my life. I did teach in public schools. Then when we adopted a little baby from China, I wanted to stay home. And I started a direct home selling business and built a multimillion dollar lineage with a company, not even realizing that really part of what I was doing was recruiting. Had no idea, right? You just do your business and you build and build and build teams and all this stuff. And then I just got tired of being out and doing a show two or three times a week and meetings on the weekends and. And I had been headhunted by a couple of folks that.

Cathy Stewart [00:03:48]:
A couple of startup companies, and I, you know, and it. And they wanted me to be able to go to their corporate offices and relocate. And I couldn't relocate because I had a daughter. And so I decided to kind of plug in sales and marketing in Greensboro, North Carolina, which is where I'm from. And up popped this job that said, if you can sell, you'll always have a job. And I thought, ha, ha ha, I can sell anything. It didn't have a phone number or anything. So I googled up the phone number of Jeff Harrison, and I called Jeff, and he answered the phone.

Cathy Stewart [00:04:18]:
He said, hello, this is Jeff. And I said, jeff, Jeff Harris. Like the Jeff Harris? Because I thought surely Jeff Harris and associates would have somebody answering the phone. But it wasn't. It was just me. I mean, it was just him. And so anyway, I said, ha, ha, I'm going to come and bring my resume. And that was the beginning of it.

Cathy Stewart [00:04:33]:
So, you know, I started on his desk. I started as a recruiter. All of the things that I had done in my life previously from, you know, being a music teacher, but also being in direct home sales and learning how to recruit, not really even realize that those were the skills that I was learning, the recruiting. I was actually born to recruit. Like, this is my DNA. So When I found this, even though it was hard, it was, you know, a hard part of the time in recruiting history. It felt really easy to me because it was the first thing that I ever did that I felt like, oh my gosh, this is who I am.

Benjamin Menna [00:05:10]:
Okay, let me take, let me unpack this a little bit. You built a multimillion dollar network marketing business and then you're like, you know what I want to do, let's nix that. I want to spend more time with my family. And recruiting was the, the vehicle that you could spend more time with your daughter.

Cathy Stewart [00:05:25]:
Absolutely.

Benjamin Menna [00:05:27]:
And when you first started out, like you master recruiter, because, you know, network marketing, recruiting everywhere you go. But learning the art of executive headhunting, like what you are now, were you spending a lot of time in the office or was a combination of like, just learning on your own? Like, how did you pick up the art of recruiting in the space?

Cathy Stewart [00:05:48]:
So for me, it doesn't matter what space you're in. It's really just the art of people and being able to listen to what it is that their needs are. And one of the things that I did while I was in direct home sales was I became a human behavior specialist in disc profiling. And that was probably the thing that really set me up for success in recruiting because it really taught me that people that are these different personality profiles respond to different things. And for example, I had a. And this was right when I first started recruiting Jeff. I was working on his desk and he had this HR person that he was working with was really struggling with this person and he could not get her on the phone. Was real and mad and all this.

Cathy Stewart [00:06:34]:
And I said, listen, she's a C temperament. All you need to do is send her an email, put all the details in the email, and then ask her to schedule a time to talk with you. And he's like, really? And so he did that and then boom, they became best friends. I'm like, see, this is about influence. And influence isn't about making people do things what you want them to do. Influence is about meeting people where they are, the personality types that they are, and giving them what they need so that they kind of move in your direction.

Benjamin Menna [00:07:03]:
Okay.

Cathy Stewart [00:07:03]:
That's my superpower.

Benjamin Menna [00:07:05]:
So, okay, you, like, way before you even picked up a recruiting desk, you were focused on disc profiles.

Cathy Stewart [00:07:10]:
Yes.

Benjamin Menna [00:07:11]:
And how people operate and how you could influence them. What even like kick up that idea.

Cathy Stewart [00:07:17]:
So when you're in multi level marketing, in direct sales marketing, you are always on the phone talking to people. Booking shows, you know, talking to people about coming on board and joining your team. And so, I mean, to me, that was when he said, well, this is what you do in recruiting. I'm like, well, I already do that. I already talk to people on the phone. I make 100 phone calls a day. This isn't hard, right? And so you just make the phone calls and you talk to people and you listen to people and you engage with people. I think what helps though, people like people that make them feel good and people like to talk to people that do things interestingly on the phone that keep them engaged.

Cathy Stewart [00:08:01]:
It's not a sales call. Like, when you get a call from me, it's like I always feel like everybody wants to talk to me. Like, who wouldn't want to talk to me? I'm fun, I'm funny, I'm going to, you know, it's going to be a good conversation. Even if it's not the right opportunity. We're going to be friends, right? So when you're recruiting, there's two things that I focus on. If I'm dealing with a task oriented person, somebody that's either a C or a D temperament, then my job is to make sure that they trust me in order to like me. Because they need to know that those task oriented people need to trust in order to like and the people on the people side of the circle, I temperaments and S temperaments. They need to like people in order to trust people.

Cathy Stewart [00:08:46]:
So there's a balance between kind of figuring out what kind of person that you're talking with and being able to be successful in connecting with that person. To me, I don't care. I mean, yes, ideally we want to be able to have somebody send you the resume, but if we're just focused on making connections every day and doing our best and, and listening and finding out what people really need, then we're going to be successful in the long run, whether it's marketing or straight up recruiting.

Benjamin Menna [00:09:12]:
I love that we're going to talk about like, one of the things that you just said is highlighted is make sure you're doing it every day. And we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about that. All right, let's kind of like fast forward in your recruiting career. I know one of the things that we talked about offline is you had a wake up call back in 2017. He kind of like lay the picture of exactly what happened.

Cathy Stewart [00:09:31]:
Yeah, sure. I want to go back to 2014 because that was my first wake up call. So 2014, I'm a 360 recruiter. I'm doing my thing. I had a crappy last quarter in 2013, a couple fall offs and, you know, people that didn't take offers and a couple of job orders that I thought were going to happen didn't. So when I got back after Christmas in January, I literally had nothing on my calendar. And when you have nothing on your calendar and you feel like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? You know, I work commission, right? 100% commission all the time, right? If I'm not billing, I'm not making money. And I was calling, I couldn't get a job order.

Cathy Stewart [00:10:15]:
I couldn't. I mean, it was just ridiculous. And my boss comes into my office and he's like, are you okay? I'm like, no. And I start sobbing. I'm like, this is not. I don't know what's happening. I can't figure out what I'm doing. And.

Cathy Stewart [00:10:28]:
And he said to me, in his greatness, he said, just focus on two candidates a day, finding two people a day that you can share with your client as a candidate or that you can npc, Right? Just find two people a day. So I began at that point building just two people a day that I talked to. And eventually I ended up with job orders and candidates. And it all turned around and it was great. So in 2014, 15, I started building a team. 2016 was a great year. I built a million in revenue with my recruiter that I was working with. And it was wonderful.

Cathy Stewart [00:11:09]:
But two clients were about 75, 80% of what I had done that year. And this is where 2017 happened. So 2017, January kicks around and I call my two best clients and they're like, we've decided to change the way we do things. We spent too much money on recruiting fees. And I'm like, What now? Right? $800,000 worth of billing is out the door and I don't have a client, right? And what had I not been doing? I had not been building. Now, I've been in this place before, so I knew, getting back on the horse, I knew what I needed to do. Two candidates a day, to talking to two candidates a day, finding two candidates that I could either share for a job order or that I could use as an NPC. So I spent 2017 building 90% of my desk, brand new clients.

Cathy Stewart [00:12:06]:
And I think from. I mean, that was really what kind of kicked up being able to join Pinnacle, because I went from having a really good year in 2015 and 2016 was great. 2017 was hard, but good. Right. And then 2018, I joined Pinnacle.

Benjamin Menna [00:12:24]:
Okay, real quick. When you're sitting there talking about finding two great candidates per day, how many times are you marketing those two great candidates or how many calls are you making or emails are you sending to get to those two great candidates per day?

Cathy Stewart [00:12:37]:
Right. So remember, this is way back in the day before you do. I mean, really before all the big social media explosions. And it was probably going on, but I just didn't pay attention to it because I knew that my money was on the phone. When you first start out 80 to 100 phone calls, for me, with a little bit more experience and a little bit more contacts, probably 50 to 60 phone calls a day, it can be, you know, I'm lucky because I'm part of a firm so that I can actually utilize other people's searches. Hey, we're working on a search, and then, you know, whether. And flip it into whatever call I need it to be in. So I think for me, what I do is I just make sure that every day that you're having a minimum of 20 conversations a day.

Cathy Stewart [00:13:21]:
Now, those 20 conversations don't all turn into candidates, right? Out of those 20, you're going to have five or six that are pretty good people that then two or three might send you their resume, and then you would have two or, you know, one or two that is really good. But if you think about presenting, if you're on the recruiting side of things, your job, and I'm going to tell you, this is a dynamic that I feel like is really important. Your job is to share minimally two people a day with your clients. If you're not sharing two people a day with your clients, they don't think you're working. They just don't. So your job is to make sure that every day that you've got a minimum of two submissions every single day. On the marketing side of things, it's really, I think every 10 phone calls I make, I probably would get a job order out of. I'm thinking statistically that's if I talk to 10 people out of those, I'm going to have a job order.

Cathy Stewart [00:14:21]:
Now, will that job order test. Will that job order be a positive? I don't know because I haven't tested it yet. But if I talk to 20 people, I'm usually going to have two leads on good job orders, and I'm going to test those. And one of those might end up being something that we're going to work on from a contingent side of things.

Benjamin Menna [00:14:40]:
And just for the listeners out there and other people inside Pinnacle definitely understand this, but you're pretty much calling around a niche that you have been established with for a while. You're not just randomly shooting every direction.

Cathy Stewart [00:14:52]:
No, no, no, no, no, no. I have a. I mean, senior living is a small niche and it's a part of the healthcare niche. So our clients are communities and organizations that have multi levels of care. Independent living, assisted living, memory care, skilled nursing, all on the same campus or a combination thereof. And so there's a, you know, a finite number of those. And we do work nationally. So I think there's only about 1700 retirement communities that have the full continuum of care across the country.

Cathy Stewart [00:15:22]:
So it's only 1700 of the big boys. Some of them are owned by organizations that have multiple communities. So those are communities that I market to as well. And then there's a lot more communities, a lot more organizations that have, say, independent living and assisted living in, without the skilled component. So it's just a knowledge of who I need to talk to. And we've got a, we got a good database, but that's also where LinkedIn comes in, right? LinkedIn is a pit. Don't go there. Like, don't spend your time in LinkedIn, I just have to say.

Cathy Stewart [00:15:53]:
Because it's just a place where you get leads, right? Like it's a name. Who's the CEO here, who's the CEO there, right? Get the name call. Right. Because not everybody's doing that. A lot of people are going out messaging on LinkedIn. Talent acquisition goes out messages on LinkedIn. And the problem with that is only about, you know, 13% have. There's not even a, you know, 13% success rate on being able to get messages back.

Cathy Stewart [00:16:21]:
What's going to differentiate yourself calling the person? Right? So that's, that's kind of my philosophy on how you gotta do that.

Benjamin Menna [00:16:27]:
How'd you end up in your niche?

Cathy Stewart [00:16:29]:
Well, like I said, it was a freaking luck. I mean. Cause when I called, I mean, I had no idea. I didn't know what recruiting was. And he tells me and he says it's, you know, I work in senior living. So I have always had just a huge love and passion for seniors. Always. My grandparents were my very best memories of my life.

Cathy Stewart [00:16:51]:
And I had one set of grandparents that was lucky enough to be able to have the finances, to be able to live in a retirement community and be able to, you know, end life there and go through those levels. The other one didn't have as much money, ended up living with me. My grandmother lived with me, actually, when I started recruiting, she was living with me, so. So my grandma lived with me until it just wasn't safe. So as a consumer, I was part of, you know, that market space. But I always just loved seniors. And I feel like, you know, it was just kind of one of those sheer luck things that I fell into an organization that deals with people that I am just ridiculously passionate about. So I always thought, you know, I would love to say I could be a nurse and take care of people, but I do not do body fluids.

Cathy Stewart [00:17:39]:
Like, that's not my thing. Cannot under. Not a single body fluid. It's gross. But I can use my gifts to recruit people that can take care of that. Right. So I feel like, you know, knowing that my gift was kind of that gift of gab and being able to connect with people, I can use that, my superpower for the good and make good in the world by helping hire executives that run these retirement communities ultimately that take care of seniors that just really don't have the resources and the back to be able to care for themselves.

Benjamin Menna [00:18:11]:
Sometimes I think it's wild that you pretty much cold called into a recruiting company because they didn't have their number. They didn't have their number there, and it ended up being a niche that was just fantabulously, like, perfect for you.

Cathy Stewart [00:18:24]:
So the universe always delivers. Don't you forget that the universe always delivers. It's a matter of kind of figuring out and asking for it and creating your own life.

Benjamin Menna [00:18:33]:
I've had the chance to meet you in person, and you are such a positive person. And you've just said the universe always delivers. Like, where did this foundation of a positive mental attitude come from?

Cathy Stewart [00:18:44]:
Probably my grandmother. I mean, I can just think, I can hear her saying things like, don't go bar in trouble. There's, you know, I can hear her saying, oh, my gosh, you are just the most wonderful human being. I think that, you know, as parents, as grandparents, as people walking this planet, being a good human being, I think being able to share and be kind to people, it always comes back in spades. And I just have always found that. So, I mean, I think it's kind of my nature to be positive, but it's important to know that people that are positive all the time, look, they fall off the horse too. So I want to, you know, go circling back to what you were talking about. I have fallen off the Horse.

Cathy Stewart [00:19:26]:
Many times, in fact, I do ride also, and that's my favorite time. Like, that's one of my most favorite times in the whole world is on the back of a horse. But that's part of my reality that I create also.

Benjamin Menna [00:19:37]:
Let me kind of ask you this. So I've met a lot of people over the years that are positive, happy, and all that stuff. Life's a great bubble, but a lot of times, many of those people aren't good at closing the deal, aren't good at making a sale. Like, is that something that you ever had to juggle, or is that, like, just natural for you?

Cathy Stewart [00:19:54]:
I think that everybody there is a learning to learning how to close the deal. My colleague Jeff, who owns our firm, he would say his favorite part is closing the deal. That's not my favorite part. You know, it's nice to close the deal. It's nice to get the money. But what I love is what happens afterwards and the impact that people make. So I have to really kind of make sure that I am doing all the right things to get to the finish line. And it's a process.

Cathy Stewart [00:20:26]:
So making sure that you're qualifying people financially. If this is relocation, really focusing on that relocation piece, is this the right fit for them? I would rather walk away from money and not place somebody than place a wrong person with an organization. And same way I don't want to place an organization with a person that's not going to be right for them, because what will happen three months, six months down the road, they're going to be gone and I'm going to be doing a replacement. So I'd rather not. So those things are kind of the learned things that you have to have from a personality standpoint. I think that just having that positive mindset, bad stuff happens. I mean, I still have deals fall apart. I still.

Cathy Stewart [00:21:09]:
I'm working on two replacements right now. You know, it's never great when somebody falls off. It's never great when somebody doesn't take a job offer or gets to the finish line and I won't even give them the job offer because I can't close them. Like, that's my deal. I'm not. Even when people say, oh, I have all these turndowns, this always freaks me out because I'm like, I'm not even giving them the offer unless they're going to be like, I'm not even going to present the offer unless I know it's 100% right and I'll walk away if I know it's not going to be 100%. Sometimes that makes people follow me. But it's important to do that because you're doing the right thing.

Cathy Stewart [00:21:44]:
I mean, ultimately everything is about doing the right thing. So from a positive mindset though, because you're going to have stuff that happens, what do you do? Okay, I'm going to allow you five minutes. Five minutes, have a pity party, whatever, get mad. But ultimately, and this is what I Learned in my disc training, you have to take 100% responsibility. I know it's never your 100%. It's never 100%. Divorce isn't 100% right. It's 50, 50.

Cathy Stewart [00:22:12]:
When things go wrong with a job order, when things go wrong with a candidate, it's never really 100%. But if you act as if you are 100% responsible for what happens, you're going to go so much farther than blaming somebody else. Oh, it's a bad job order. Oh, it's a bad client. Oh, it's a crappy candidate. And you know, that might be some of it. But the reality is, what did you miss as a recruiter? Like, you're responsible for that. You're the professional.

Cathy Stewart [00:22:44]:
So take your five minute pity party, then get back on the horse and do the basics to find the person that you need to find to fill the role. Because you know what? Six months from now, that role is going to be filled. And whether I fill it or somebody's going to apply or some other recruiter is going to fill it, that's them. I mean, that's the reality of what's going to happen. So you have a choice. You can get back on the horse and you can fill it yourself and do it the right way or you won't have the job order anymore.

Benjamin Menna [00:23:12]:
I think you've nailed on the head. I want to ask you a question about the getting back to the basics and, you know, getting back on that horse. I think one of the things that many recruiters struggle with is the self accountability. It sounds like you got a good team and a good support system behind you with an incredible organization, an incredible boss. That probably helps too. But at the end of the day, like, how do you keep yourself accountable for these basics?

Cathy Stewart [00:23:35]:
Well, I have a vision of what I want my life to look like. I am old enough to be your mother. I'm on the tail end of my career. Right. And you're looking at retirement. And throughout my adulthood. It's not that I've always been focused on retirement, but I've always been focused on what kind of life I want to be able to create. Now, right now, that's talking about retirement, right? So five years from now, where do I want to be retired? Right? And so in order to get to these things, we have to have certain financial goals or certain things.

Cathy Stewart [00:24:09]:
And it's not just the finance for me, it's where do I want to leave my company, how do I want to leave my business that I have built at this company. So it's really kind of starting with that end vision and then saying, okay, well how do, what do I need to do to be able to get there? And then what does that mean, breaking it down. So it's about, you know, what kind of billing do I need to see in order for and how many deals does that mean? And you know, you should know what all of your metrics are. I'm a huge, huge proponent of metrics. And I will tell you, when I first started, I was not a metrics person. Oh my God, don't pin me down to the number of calls that I'm making. I don't like to be constrained. It feels so icky.

Cathy Stewart [00:24:51]:
Right? But what I learned is, is if you will look at what you want financially or life or otherwise, and decide how much you need in order to make that happen. What's your average fee? Divide that by the number of months that you have and the number of submissions that it takes to get there and the number of people that you need to call. It makes it a very. These are bite sized things that you just do every single day. So once you get into the habit, it's great. But to get into the habit, it takes months and sometimes years. And I'll give you an example after that, 2017. And you know, it's like, oh my gosh, up, down, up, down, up, down with number of clients and.

Cathy Stewart [00:25:36]:
But what I started to do once I got into Pinnacle was I recognized because we have this accountability group from a billing standpoint called the Summit Club. And it gives you every month I'm reporting my monthly billings and it's just friendly. It's not, you know, doesn't really matter in life, but it keeps me consistent, right? So if I want to have minimum of 600,000 in billings, that's 50,000amonth, right? So if I don't hit 50,000amonth, I feel like I'm kind of letting my peeps down, right? So that's, you know, not really. But I mean, I feel like I have to do that. And it has taken me from 20182019 to now, this year was the first year, the first year ever that I hit my monthly consistent goals. So, you know, if you think, oh my gosh, I can't do this, it's, you know, I messed up two months in a row. You know what? It's going to take you years. I've been doing this 17 years.

Cathy Stewart [00:26:34]:
It took me 17 years to have one year, one full year where I hit my goal every single month. So it's breaking it down into bite sized pieces. Just setting that intention just consistently. And it's okay if you don't do it this year, do it next year. Just keep going, don't give up, get back up, get on the horse, come on. That's the best place to be.

Benjamin Menna [00:26:58]:
I love this because, like, you know, you started off when I asked you, like, how do you keep yourself accountable? And you hit a few things, like you have a crystal clear vision of exactly where you want to be in five years and you've actually spent the time to break it down to exactly what you need to do year over year to hit that, that vision, that crystal clear vision of goals. But one thing that I think I also love is you have with the Summit Club Battle buddies. Yeah, that, it's one of the things that, you know, I work around the military, around government contracting, and one of the special things that, you know, when it comes to our military personnel is many times they, they don't do it for them, they do it to keep it for their buddies. And you guys have created this like battle buddies where you're just like, you know what, I got to hit my goal because it's my goal, my personal goal. But you know what? If I hit my goal, it's going to help my battle buddy.

Cathy Stewart [00:27:47]:
Yeah, it's going to show them. It just shows them that you can do it. It's okay. There's a lot of people who bill a whole lot more than I do in this world and, and that's cool. I never look at that and I don't say, you know, oh, I wish I did more. If you want to make changes in how much you're billing, you've got two different ways you can do it. You can either do more of what you're doing or you can go at a higher level and do the same number of deals, but do higher level deals. So whatever, you pick what you want to do, but I think you have control.

Cathy Stewart [00:28:14]:
That's the thing that I love about recruiting, is that you are the one in control. You are the boss, right? Everything relies on you. And that's why I say you have to take 100% responsibility. You can't blame anybody else because ultimately you're the one that has to do the work. So you make the decision, do I want to get up and work today? And if you break it down to those daily bite sized pieces rather than. And sometimes I'll look weekly. I mean, I know I say two a day, but if I have, you know, eight to 10 submissions a week as a recruiter, I'm having a good week because eight to ten submissions to me means that I'm going to close three or four deals this month just knowing what my ratios are. So it's just that consistent.

Cathy Stewart [00:29:01]:
And that also helps get you off the roller coaster. That's the other thing that I think really for new recruiters and actually even middle aged recruiters, that was, it's hard. You've got, oh, I'm going to have this deal and then, oh, I'm not going to have this deal. And oh, I closed three deals and then, oh my God, I had a shitty month and then I da, da, da. I mean, there's an exhaustion that comes with riding the roller coaster that I think really knocks a lot of people out of this business. And if I can say one thing that will take you off the roller coaster, it is just focusing on the daily things that you need to do to get you where you need to go. That's it. Don't worry about that.

Cathy Stewart [00:29:40]:
Set the intention. This is such a good time of year to talk about this because, you know, set the intention for 2025, be ready for that year, right? Have that in your brain. Write it down. And by the way, hand write it down. There's something that happens in your brain when you write things down with your hand. Not just type it out, but your brain gets busy on figuring out how to make that happen. So it's really important to write things down, those big goals and then you take the time to step back and walk them to what it's going to be daily to make that happen.

Benjamin Menna [00:30:17]:
The Elite Recruiter podcast has multiple summits coming up that you need to make sure that you are registered for. We have the AI recruiting summit 2025 coming up and on top of that, finish the year strong. These two summits are going to help you move the needle, help you achieve your goals, goals, help you achieve your dreams and make 2025 the year that you started out and you want it to be. Make sure you get registered and also stay tuned. Got something Cooking for you guys, working on another project that you guys are going to absolutely love. All right, see you guys at the summits and see you guys soon. We, we covered a bunch here, but like, the most important thing, it sounds like the secret is getting back on the horse and focusing on what you need to do every single day.

Cathy Stewart [00:30:59]:
Every day.

Benjamin Menna [00:31:00]:
Before we jump over to the quick fire questions, is there anything else that you want to kind of expand upon that we've already covered?

Cathy Stewart [00:31:07]:
Gratitude. Just be grateful. I think that's the other thing that helps. Feel good and feel positive about the world around you every day. Just take five minutes at the beginning of your day and think about all the lives that you've changed and the things that you do and the things that you have and just be grateful. My gosh. You can't hold anger and frustration and resentment and feel gratitude at the same time. So make that choice.

Cathy Stewart [00:31:41]:
Right? Just when you're having those negative emotions, take a minute acknowledge them, but really then just kind of take stock of what you're grateful for. Even it's fits for. You know, my husband brought me a cup of coffee and put it on the side of the bed and gave me a kiss this morning. I'm so grateful for that. My gosh. You know, and that also will help set your daily intention is just really focusing on gratitude.

Benjamin Menna [00:32:06]:
I love that. Well, jumping over to the quick fire questions, pinnacle, border questions. And they don't have to be quick answer, so they don't have to be like a rapid gunfire. Let's go. So you've got 18 years of experience in this recruiting game. If somebody was like just starting off at the agency that you work at, like it's 20, 25, they've never been a recruiter before. What's the one piece of advice that you would give them to have success in this career?

Cathy Stewart [00:32:31]:
Okay, I'm going to give them two pieces of advice, right? One is don't give up. You know, when people talk about practicing medicine, you've got a doctor and they call it practicing medicine. We are like doctors. We practice recruiting. And in order to do that, we have to stay on top of things and we have to stay focused. This is not a job. If you're looking for a job, go work for talent acquisition. If you want to recruit, this is a profession and you cannot learn this business in six months.

Cathy Stewart [00:33:01]:
That first year is horrible. So you gotta just know that you are. You just gotta stick it out. No matter what, you gotta stick it out for a minimum of two years. It takes you Two years to learn what you're going to learn to be successful. It's going to take you five years to be able to get good. Okay? So that's the first thing. Perseverance.

Cathy Stewart [00:33:21]:
Don't let anything derail your perseverance for continuing to learn this trade. And then the second thing is be teachable. You are going to completely change the way that you communicate and how you communicate, the syntax you use, the way that you listen. These are all things that are deeply ingrained as who you are as a human being, and we're going to change that. Like, the listening that it takes to recruit is not normal. Like, it's not what you normally have in life. So we're going to completely change the way you communicate. It's going to feel icky because we're changing who you are as a human being.

Cathy Stewart [00:34:04]:
So be teachable and be open and know that we're doing this because we want to make you the best recruiter ever.

Benjamin Menna [00:34:11]:
Love that. And same question, but for somebody that's been in the game, you know, like, don't laugh. I'm almost two decades in the recruiting space, but, like, you know, being Pinnacle, like, I'm sure you have a lot of recruiters that talk to you like, what advice would you give to them to, you know, see success or keep crushing it?

Cathy Stewart [00:34:28]:
So, you know, it's funny because when you're in Pinnacle, there's always a piece of you that feels like it's that imposter syndrome. Gosh, am I really good enough to be here? And I know on a conscious level, yeah, I've done the work and I know that I need to do. But I think the mindset is probably the thing that Pinnacle people will always have a need to kind of boost, right? They know how to recruit, they know how to get business. But I think that sometimes we forget how important it is to take the time to recharge. It's okay to fail. And I think that one of the things that I really love and appreciate about Pinnacle is that we have the ability to fail in that group. And no judgment, right? So if somebody fails or has a bad year or bad quarter or whatever, we're there to pick them up. So for them, it's really, I'm here, you're great.

Cathy Stewart [00:35:30]:
I want to be able to continue to help people feel good and happy and supported. So, I mean, I just think for them, it's really looking at. I do think some of those. The disc profiling stuff would probably be really helpful because it's all stuff that you kind of know, but you don't really know. And that's all fun and exciting. But I think mindset is probably the thing that recruiters, those of us that are experienced, just have to remember. You are worth money, for God's sakes. You are worth a lot of money.

Cathy Stewart [00:35:59]:
I have a little card, a little index card on my computer in the office that says you are worth money. Have like million dollar bills like printed out around my computer because I just always like to surround myself with those affirmations. So my job is in Pinnacles to be an affirmation for everybody else and to let them know that it's okay to fail. I'm going to be here.

Benjamin Menna [00:36:22]:
Awesome. And you know, we were just talking about Pinnacle, like what does Pinnacle society mean to you?

Cathy Stewart [00:36:26]:
Oh my gosh. You know, Pinnacle society is like a family. You are surrounded with high performing achievers who are the very best of the best. And what that does for me is it just makes me want to be better. I've always had a growth mentality. I've always wanted to grow and be bigger and better and bill more and develop a team and all this things. And it seems before Pinnacle it seemed harder to do that because it was just me and you know, and my boss and people that I worked with. But with Pinnacle, I got people around me that have done it.

Cathy Stewart [00:37:05]:
It's a total game changer from your personal business, but also knowing that you've got people that you can rely on to be able to share anything and everything that you need, personal, professional. And they're not there to judge, but they're always there to celebrate. No matter what. It's best. It's the best. Those are my peeps now.

Benjamin Menna [00:37:26]:
I almost feel like you might say the book about disc profile, but has there been a book that has had a huge impact on your personal career?

Cathy Stewart [00:37:33]:
So this is going to sound really strange, but the book that really has made just such a huge impact on me and my career, it's a little book called Mistakes were made but not by me. And it is all about accountability. And it's an old book, it's been around for 20 some years, but it is about why people lie to themselves and why people lie to other people. And it's really about that protection of the ego with a little E. Not the big E but the little E. And so just kind of learning that and recognizing that we all do bad things. It's just a matter of, you know, how do we take responsibility for that? That's kind of where that responsibility piece came in and I feel like that that's probably, I mean, other than my disc profiling, that disc training, anything that has to do with that, that book has just always been something that I recommend to everybody. And it's an old one, but it's a good one.

Benjamin Menna [00:38:32]:
Oh, love that. So you're doing great recruiting, like boys that don't want to be in music into music, and then you left and crushed it in multi level marketing or network marketing. And like, even before you joined Pinnacle, like you were doing great as a recruiter, you know, once you figured out the basics and figured out the systems and what worked for you and you've been doing great since then, like to your core, is there something that you can contribute? This, like, success driven mindset.

Cathy Stewart [00:38:59]:
For success driven mindset, it's really just about not giving up. I mean, taking responsibilities for the failures, not giving up, getting back on the horse, recognizing it's okay to lose. It's okay, but what can I learn from that, right? Jordan Rayboy, one of my best friends in Pinnacle, I love him so much. He said to me one time, he said, you can win or you can lose. I mean, you can wait a minute, you can win or you can learn. That's what it was. Either you win or you learn. And I'm like, yeah, that's what it is.

Cathy Stewart [00:39:31]:
You either win or you learn. But if you don't take the opportunity to look at what the loss was about or what the failure was about, you can position every failure as a learning opportunity. What did I miss? And it becomes a positive. I mean, I would just say that's getting back and learning from what didn't go right and just working to not make it happen again.

Benjamin Menna [00:39:52]:
Here's gonna be a fun question. Like, you've learned so much over the last 18 years. The highs, lows, crazy wins. To have the force to like sit down and realize that you need to get back on the horse. Let's look back in your first year recruiting and with everything that you know, if you can have, we'll say a cup of coffee with yourself and have a conversation with yourself within that first year, what advice would you give yourself?

Cathy Stewart [00:40:15]:
So I think that the part about not giving up and that it takes five years to get good, I think that first year can be really frustrating because you're having to learn so much about an industry, having to learn so much about how to change the way that you communicate. You're just not good. I mean, I had success that first year, my first full year In Pinnacle, I think I made like, $90,000. I had 180,000 in billing, and that was my first year of just, you know, but it wasn't the big bucks, and I was one deal away from making a bonus, and it didn't happen. And it was okay because I was able to then say, okay, what do I need to do to get to this level and make those changes? But for that, you know, just give yourself a little grace. You cannot learn this in a year and just know that it's going to take five years before you get really good. It took me two years before I said, oh, you know, I can do this. Like, I might be okay about this.

Cathy Stewart [00:41:19]:
I might be good, right? Second year, I made, like, you know, I build 250 the second year and then 300 and then 500. But it took me five years before I realized that I was really good. So just, you know, give yourself some grace. Just keep plugging away.

Benjamin Menna [00:41:38]:
Awesome. What you do well, because you've been in the game for a while and, you know, you talk about the game, you influence other recruiters, share successes, share things you're learning. You know, I'm sure a lot of recruiters, like, reach out and, like, ask questions, right? Like, what do I do? How do I do this? What's the best email to send?

Cathy Stewart [00:41:56]:
I wish they would more. They don't. You know, I mean, I think that sometimes if people see I know my people in my office will, right, because they know me. And I've had some, you know, Pinnacle people send some. Some of their peeps my way to have a conversation, but that's something that I would welcome a lot more. I mean, reach out to me on LinkedIn. Hey, I'm good with having a conversation. I'm happy to help with where I can.

Benjamin Menna [00:42:20]:
So that was going to walk into my. Walk into my question, because a lot of times, like you, I'm guessing you probably get questions or, how do you do this? Or how do you do that? Is there a question that you wish they would actually ask you? And what would be that answer?

Cathy Stewart [00:42:32]:
I mean, it's what we've talked about. What do I need to do every day to get where I want to go? And that answer is what we talked about. Taking the goal, breaking it down into annual, quarterly, monthly, weekly, daily things, and just trust the process. Like, how do I get there, do the daily work and trust the process.

Benjamin Menna [00:42:56]:
And, you know, you were just talking about, like, recruiters, like, feel free to reach out to you. Where's the best way to follow you or reach out to you.

Cathy Stewart [00:43:04]:
I'm on LinkedIn. I mean, that's. I told you, I'm not a big social media person, but I'm on LinkedIn. Yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me.

Benjamin Menna [00:43:13]:
Okay. And before I let you go, I know we covered a lot. Is there anything else that you want to leave the listeners with?

Cathy Stewart [00:43:19]:
I mean, what I said before, take a moment every single day to be grateful for the things that you have. Even on those worst days, there are great things that are happening all around you. Recognize those great things, be grateful for those great things and just continue to get up on the horse every single day. Every single day. Yeah.

Benjamin Menna [00:43:41]:
Well, Kathy, I just want to say thank you so much because I know for a lot of people listening, like 2023 has not been anywhere close to what 2022 was. And it's one of those things like you talked about, like the need to get back on the horse and recognize where you are, get back to the basics, which is the secret of the business. So thank you so much for sharing and for the listeners. I know 2025 is going to be your year. Let's make it happen. Thank you.

Cathy Stewart [00:44:05]:
Let's do it.

Benjamin Menna [00:44:06]:
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Benjamin Menna [00:44:44]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.