From Leap of Faith to Six-Figure Recruiter: Kelly (Dockrell) Brown's Secrets to Building a Thriving Agency (as a Military Spouse)

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast.

Kelly Dockrell [00:00:03]:
The whole journey to Hawaii that I write about in my book was really just like a God sized calling to like give up everything, change directions in life and move to Hawaii. But also like, I felt like God had promised that I'd meet my husband there. So when I knew it was time to leave the island, I still hadn't met my husband. So I was like, well, I'm supposed to stay here obviously, because I haven't met the man of my dreams yet. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena. We focus on what it takes to.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:33]:
Win in the recruiting game.

Kelly Dockrell [00:00:35]:
We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:44]:
I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast because we're going to talk about how taking a leap of faith can completely change your life. We're going to talk about how recruiting is actually one of the biggest, best professions being a military spouse. On top of that, we're going to talk about how to author a book while running a desk and everything else that happens with life. So I am super excited about this episode. We're going to dive in and I'm excited that Kelly is the guest today. So, Kelly, welcome to the podcast and real quick, 30 second intro on yourself and your business.

Kelly Dockrell [00:01:17]:
Aloha, Ben. Thanks for having me. Yes, I am Kelly Dock Brown. I'm a newlywed. Of course, I did marry into the Air Force. My husband is active duty here in Arizona at Luke Air Force Base. And Yeah, I spent 15 years in outside sales running the streets of Miami, logistics, transportation. And then through a long, tumultuous journey, I ended up in Hawaii.

Kelly Dockrell [00:01:42]:
And through that I started a recruiting company from scratch in 2021. And here it is four years later, very successful, loving it. And then, yeah, I just published a book. I'm officially a published author as of two months ago. So it's busy. But I'm thankful I've got the flexibility and I'm doing it and I'm thriving and just really loving life at this.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:05]:
Point, that is awesome. So, okay, let's take a few steps back. How did you end up in this crazy world of recruiting?

Kelly Dockrell [00:02:12]:
Okay, if I really, really had to take it back and get into the nitty gritty of when I discovered that I should be a recruiter would have been around 2014. So I read a lot and I ended up reading the book, which was very popular at the time, 2014, the four hour work week. And it's by Timothy Ferriss. And it's interesting because in the book, what he talks about, you know, over a decade ago is still super relevant today. Like, back then he was talking about hiring VAs virtual assistants overseas. And it's still something that's very relevant. So I read this book, and the one takeaway, he posed the question. He said, what is the greatest skill that you have that relates to your job? And, you know, think about that and how you could, you know, merge that into a career? So super easy for me.

Kelly Dockrell [00:02:59]:
I was like, I'm a networker. I could put two people together for purpose. Whether it's like, for work or relationships or whatever, I could find two people and create mutually beneficial relationships. So, ironically, back then I was in Miami, I decided to start a matchmaking company. And yeah, and it's funny because it was the first company that I built from scratch. And I think the setting up of the company was a lot of fun to me because that was when I was really digging in. And of course, this was over 10 years ago. So I launched that company, recognized pretty quickly that the dating pool in South Florida sucks.

Kelly Dockrell [00:03:37]:
So you've got, like, you've got the model girls that of course want to date the athletes, and then you've got guys that are making like 30 grand a year, they want to date the models. And it's so. It just so happened there was a matchmaking TV show that was going to be launching in Miami. So they were looking for matchmaking companies, and they ended up just kind of acquiring my book. And then I got out of it. But it is funny because back then I knew I was meant to be a recruiter, and it was like the timing wasn't aligned. So fast forward 2021. The truth of the matter is, and this is going to sound absolutely nuts, I was living in Hawaii, in Kona.

Kelly Dockrell [00:04:16]:
And at that point, I knew I was going to be relocating to Arizona. But for whatever reason, I was still trying to hang on to staying in Hawaii. I was actually interviewing with a bunch of different companies, like medical device, like, all these different companies. So, lo and behold, it was a Sunday night and I couldn't sleep. And I deal with insomnia my entire life. So I just kind of sat there and meditated. And as I was sitting there, meditated, it got downloaded into me to launch a recruiting company. Like, literally in an instant.

Kelly Dockrell [00:04:43]:
It was like a blueprint. So then I couldn't sleep and I was meditating. And then I got really excited. I was like, oh, shoot, I'm starting a company. So sure enough, that was a Sunday. Monday I launched the company, got the LLC and then Tuesday went down YouTube University. Wednesday, I found Ben Nader on YouTube and reached out to him just to buy contracts. And I said, hey, I need to buy your agreements.

Kelly Dockrell [00:05:09]:
You know, I'm starting this company. And he's like, no, you can't buy my agreements. You have to join my program. So sure enough, by Wednesday, I hired him as a coach and like completely hit the ground running. So it was quick.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:21]:
First of all, you were, and you didn't say this, but you were also a DJ in Hawaii too. Was that one of the reasons why you wanted to thinking about staying as your DJ career?

Kelly Dockrell [00:05:30]:
Well, no, no, no, it's crazier than that. So the whole journey to Hawaii that I write about in my book was really just like a God sized calling to like give up everything, change directions in life and move to Hawaii. But also like I felt like God had promised that I'd meet my husband there. So when I knew it was time to leave the island, I still hadn't met my husband. So I was like, well, I'm supposed to stay here obviously, because I haven't met the man of my dreams yet. So that was what was the fight of trying to stay on the island like in my mind.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:02]:
Okay, so pause real quick. A lot going on before we start going back to the recruiting. And you don't, don't share the rest of the story yet.

Kelly Dockrell [00:06:08]:
Okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:09]:
Your husband, you did meet him in Hawaii?

Kelly Dockrell [00:06:11]:
I absolutely did, yes. Here's the irony. So the Lord promised me that I meet my husband in Hawaii. If anybody's been to Kona or been to the Big island, it's a very remote location. It almost feels like you're living in 1993. Like there's maybe 20 restaurants. There's not like clubs and bars. It's not a party scene.

Kelly Dockrell [00:06:30]:
If you want to go to Hawaii and party, go to Honolulu. That's a completely different island. So sure enough, April 24th of 2021, I had met my husband and, well, my now husband in Hawaii. He was there on a boys trip. And I was like, what is this super handsome guy doing on a boys trip in Kona? It was the strangest. Like it was just a strange occurrence. So we did, we went out on a date. And I just remember thinking that was the absolute nicest man I've ever met in my life.

Kelly Dockrell [00:06:59]:
And then we never kept in touch. That was it. I saw him, we had a great day. It was phenomenal. And then I Forgot all about him. We, no social media, texting, calling, nothing.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:09]:
All right, and hold off on that and then jump back over to recruiting before you move. So literally, like you had a vision to start a recruiting company. It was like, almost like it took over your head. Like the vision came about. I feel like a lot of people have ideas.

Kelly Dockrell [00:07:25]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:26]:
Like I have a book full of ideas. I do dumb ideas all the time, but there's so many things that I don't do. Why did you listen to this one compared to all the other ones that you've probably have had before?

Kelly Dockrell [00:07:41]:
Okay, so for me, in my life, when I get a God sized moment, it's really undeniable. Like when God speaks to me, it's not audible. It's something that almost gets transferred into like my soul. So it's the same as, you know, I was working in Miami, making six figure base salary, making a lot of money, working in logistics, transportation, back in 2017. And it was just one day that the Lord spoke to me. It was. And it's actually kind of ironic because in 2017 when God spoke to me, it was in October. And then when I started the recruiting company in 2021, it was October.

Kelly Dockrell [00:08:16]:
So maybe there's something about that, I don't know. When God spoke to me in 2017, he told me to leave my job, leave everything and move to Hawaii. And same thing there, I did it the very next day. So for me, if it's like a God sized calling, it shakes me to the core. And it's almost like you want to be kind of fear based, but at the same time, like it's really an undeniable reckoning. And that's truly what happened. So when it happened the second time for the recruiting company, I was like, bam, that's it. It must be from God.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:47]:
So you took a leap of faith, then you went to YouTube University, and then you ran across Ben Nader. And actually, I think as of just a few days ago, it was a two year mark where I shared my last podcast interview with Ben Nader. Rest in peace. I think he did a great job bringing a lot of people into the industry. Yeah, but okay, so then you hired Ben Nader and then you started a recruiting company. Let's talk about the start. Getting out of the get go. How was it you didn't know anything about recruiting outside of God? Told you you went to UU Tube University, Ben Nader became your coach.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:18]:
Talk about the start.

Kelly Dockrell [00:09:19]:
Yeah, so, well, first of all, I started the company. I needed a name. So I did want my name to start with an A, just because if anybody was looking up, same thing, like looking back on, like generationally speaking, if you went to the yellow pages or the white pages, whichever ones they were, I wanted the name, my company to pop up first, but I wanted it to be recognizable and to know what it is that we do. So that's how I went with a claim. And that truly for me relates back to my faith. So it's like a claim. The Lord and his sovereignty, he gave me this company. So therefore, like, this is for him.

Kelly Dockrell [00:09:50]:
Okay, so I then of course, I joined the recruiting group with Ben. Here's the thing. In my mind I was thinking, okay, I built up like a 15 year career that I had obviously had walked away from by that point had been like four years. I had global connections, so I was working in logistics, transportation as well as aviation and aerospace. So between all those vast connections that I had on LinkedIn in my head, I was like, I could just call a few of these companies up and be like, hey, are you guys hiring? Let me try to place people. Like, that's really all I knew. But fortunately, in joining Ben's group, that's when I was able to dig in and recognize that there's a lot more that goes into owning a recruiting company than just making a few phone calls and trying to hook people up for connection. It is similar to matchmaking, obviously, because you're putting two people together for purpose, but there's so much more to it.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:41]:
How did you get your first three clients?

Kelly Dockrell [00:10:43]:
That was a whole doozy in and of itself. So this was the first time, and coming from a sales background, this was the first time I learned about cold email drip campaigns. And that's truly what Ben was teaching, teaching. And you know, back then, obviously it was a different platform. It does. It's not that long ago, but everything moves so quickly in this industry. So I was learning about cold email drip campaigns, scraping emails, doing the outreach. Unfortunately, what happened to me was pretty much immediately.

Kelly Dockrell [00:11:13]:
Once I had launched campaigns, I burnt out my domain, like, absolutely toasted it, blacklisted, done. Nobody's getting any emails, can't get in touch with anybody. And it was terrible. And at that time, we were using a platform called All Pro. And I just remember thinking, okay, I know I was undeniable that God was like, this is what you're going to do. Why is this failing? Why am I having so much trouble? And then it was frustrating because I'd be on the calls with Ben and everybody else on the team, which is great because I'm still really tight with these people today. And, like, you just hear about everybody else's success. Oh, man.

Kelly Dockrell [00:11:47]:
My deliverability is at 37%. I'm like, mine's at 2%. Like, there's something wrong. And I just couldn't find any help. Like, nobody could understand what was going on. I'm not getting resources. I'm hitting a wall. And I'm thinking I just, like, put my blood, sweat and tears into something that, like, is not.

Kelly Dockrell [00:12:07]:
It's not working and it's going to fail. And the truth is, is, like, I listen to a lot of motivational, like, speeches and podcasts and videos and stuff. And I just remember hearing, I think it was Steve Harvey quote, and he said, put yourself in a position that failure is not an option. So for me, I'm like, if this doesn't work, I better just go get a tent and live on the streets, like, because this is what I'm doing. Like, I was full throttle. I'm doing this and it's going to work. It was brutal. So getting back to your question, how I did get my first clients, it truly was when I.

Kelly Dockrell [00:12:40]:
I was able to kind of pivot my cold email campaigns, fixed a couple things, had to obviously get a new domain because I toasted the last one and the startup from there. So let's see, I launched October, and then my first actual placement was March of the following year, October.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:58]:
So you're looking at like, six months. It took you six months to make your first placement?

Kelly Dockrell [00:13:02]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:03]:
Were you working a job while building your recruiting company?

Kelly Dockrell [00:13:06]:
Yeah. You did mention I was a Hawaiian dj. So I let that. I was the number one requested DJ on the Big island. So I was hosting huge weddings. So I was like a DJ MC for these big, massive weddings or corporate events. And you can imagine they're at, like, the most beautiful locations and big resorts and hotels, Four Seasons, all that. But also.

Kelly Dockrell [00:13:27]:
And when you live in Hawaii, you would understand this. You work multiple jobs because it's so expensive to live there. We talked about this earlier. When you're spending like 12 on a gallon of milk. Yeah. You need multiple streams of income. So I was also working for a company which is Global Medical Response, and I was working for the division that sold Ambulance Air evac membership. So if you ever get flown for a medical emergency, you don't have to pay out of pocket.

Kelly Dockrell [00:13:52]:
But here's the kicker. They're the ones that wanted me to relocate to Arizona, and I was disgruntled about it because they chose not to cover my relocation costs. Now, the thing is, is that for me, I'd relocated so many times in my career, I thought to myself, all right, no problem. I'm just going to expense this on my taxes. What happened, because that was during COVID times 2021, is that they negated that as an expense for relocation costs for, like. Yeah. So it was just terrible. So needless to say, I was working that job.

Kelly Dockrell [00:14:23]:
They wanted me in Arizona. So I ended up moving from Hawaii to Arizona in December. So I'm still launching the recruiting company. I'm working for this other company. They're not paying my relocation. So that set me back 9,000 just for the relocation costs. I get to Arizona. When I arrived, I was waiting for my favorite beloved Jeep to be shipped to San Diego.

Kelly Dockrell [00:14:45]:
I arrive in San Diego to pick up the Jeep, find out that my beloved jeep was totaled by the shipping company. Completely, like, totaled. They just kind of shrugged their shoulders. It was terrible. I ended up getting super duper sick. Like. Like deathly ill. Get to Arizona.

Kelly Dockrell [00:15:00]:
I end up finding a roommate. That was a natural disaster of a human being. And my company's failing. I'm like, why did I leave Hawaii at that point? I didn't know that the guy met before in April was going to be my husband. I was like, I didn't meet my husband. What is going on? It was. It was a disaster. There was a lot of times I would even talk to the guy from all Pro that did our cold email drip campaigns and just cry my face off.

Kelly Dockrell [00:15:25]:
Cause I was like. I was like, this was the trajectory of my life. Like, I'm supposed to be a recruiter. This company's supposed to be successful. So, yeah, long story short, I was working a job when I arrived here in Arizona, and I was still launching a company.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:39]:
If you got a chance to, like, you know, the end story now, you know how you've built your recruiting company. Those nights or those weekends you were crying while you're putting in the work, you know the end story now. Like, what would you go back and tell yourself?

Kelly Dockrell [00:15:54]:
I'd probably keep it simple and say, buckle up, buttercup.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:59]:
What advice would you give to other people that are. They've launched their company, they've made the leap of faith, and they're just struggling to find the success.

Kelly Dockrell [00:16:08]:
Yeah, I mean, look, I. I say this a lot because I tell everybody, when you get up in the morning, I'll either listen to youtubes that lead me in prayer, or I listen to motivational Podcasts. And the one thing that stuck with me during that time was put yourself in a position that failure is not an option. So I stuck with that. Okay. The other thing that occurred to me was that this was a faith driven endeavor and God had never failed me up until this point. I never been failed, but my God likes to take me to the end of the cliff and dangle me to where I think I'm falling. And then he's like, all right, gotcha.

Kelly Dockrell [00:16:42]:
Like, because you don't lose faith, right? What I tell, especially the people that were struggling when I started to become successful, was like, look, if you started this company and immediately you're just raking in money and just very successful, having the time of your life, you're going to get an ego. And that ego is not healthy for a human being. So the fact that you're struggling is going to teach you humility and keep you humble as you produce and succeed and get better, because you always have to keep that part of you. When we get an ego in anything in life, it will absolutely destroy you and the person that you are. So I think probably looking back, it was ultimately like, you know, my test of perseverance, persistence, not giving up, but also, you know, that pure humility of knowing that it was absolutely blood, sweat and tears going into it.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:31]:
So you working a full time job, it takes you six, seven months to make your first placement. When did you quit your job and go all in?

Kelly Dockrell [00:17:40]:
I quit my job early March. So right when I, you know, started to kind of recognize that, like, this is what I'm doing. Because here's the thing, I'm a very honest and ethical person. Right. So I knew that I was getting paid for the job that I was working, but ultimately I needed time to be able to focus on my business. So I retracted from my job in order to just go full in full time. And the other thing too is that I also recognize that LinkedIn is so crucial for recruiters. And therefore, you know, if I was working behind the scenes as an entrepreneur with my own company, I couldn't put that out there on LinkedIn because I was still employed.

Kelly Dockrell [00:18:17]:
And that was probably the one thing that really led me to being like, all right, I'm. I need to go all in on this position.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:24]:
What do you think helped you get the most traction after you went all in for success?

Kelly Dockrell [00:18:29]:
Absolutely. My LinkedIn network.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:31]:
Okay.

Kelly Dockrell [00:18:32]:
And utilizing automation and, you know, kind of putting myself out there. And that's when I recognized that, all right, Kel, like, you have to Identify yourself as acclaimed recruiters. You're a recruiter, you wear that hat. That's the content that you have to put out when people think of you. That's what they need to think. And I immediately had to focus all my efforts and energies and my thoughts to know that I'm a recruiter, I own a recruiting agency. This is what I do, this is what I'm best at, and I'm here to help others. So it's a mentality shift.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:03]:
So it really just was almost a shift of your mindset.

Kelly Dockrell [00:19:07]:
100%. Yeah. And it's funny because that switch, when you're used to being employed, it's so interesting because, like, you're thinking, okay, so on Friday, you know, I need to go out and run a few errands. You know, I need to check in and make sure, you know, my boss knows when you're all of a sudden given that flexibility to run your own schedule, your own life, you're your own boss. There's something that happens that has to kind of click over, right, to know, like, this is mine, it's my freedom, my success depends on how much work I put into this. But ultimately, I don't have to report to anybody. And especially in our industry, if you're a contingent recruiter, direct hire, without retainers, the truth is, you really don't owe anybody anything. If I'm not getting paid until my placement is made, then I don't owe anybody anything.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:52]:
And like, one more question back on, like, the start of your business, what were you doing on LinkedIn that really helped you gain the traction to get the clients and make the placements?

Kelly Dockrell [00:20:01]:
Yeah. So, one, I went in, scrubbed and updated my profile to make it really stand out. If you have LinkedIn, especially if you're in this industry as a recruiter, I should be able to go to your LinkedIn profile and know immediately what you do, who you are, what you do, what you represent, the verticals that you work in. Secondly, I use dripify. And dripify, for me, was an absolute game changer. I was able to run outreach for, you know, I was originally using it for candidate outreach, and then I recognized that I could also do business development through there as well. And then, you know, also getting in the mode of posting, whether it's like, happy Friday post or we're hiring or this is Acclaim recruiters. And then that kind of has evolved over the past year where, you know, you go on LinkedIn and you see my stupid face fairly often.

Kelly Dockrell [00:20:49]:
So, like, just me talking about either recruiting Sales, logistics, whatever it is.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:54]:
And you're. You're doing a lot of video now too, right?

Kelly Dockrell [00:20:57]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:57]:
Awesome. And if you want to check out Dripify, I'll have a link to check out Dripify in the show notes. If you just want to swing to the show notes, click on the link and check it out. I know you use it. I know a lot of other people that have had success from it, so. All right, so I want to flip gears a little bit. I want to talk about you being a military spouse.

Kelly Dockrell [00:21:14]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:15]:
Because I know how hard it is to be a military spouse and I know it's hard to have a career you're having to restart constantly. Because in the military, many times you get relocated across the globe for the different tours of duty that the spouse, the military spouse is in. It's a follow along.

Kelly Dockrell [00:21:37]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:38]:
And I've seen very few careers. Like I've seen teaching work, I've seen nursing work. I've seen a few things work where a military spouse could take their career with them. More often than not, it's somebody that's having to literally restart their life and their entire career over and over again. Recruiting is different. What's your thoughts on the recruiting business? Recruiting career with you being a military spouse and looking at moving?

Kelly Dockrell [00:22:06]:
Yeah, no, I, I absolutely agree with that and I appreciate you acknowledging that because it is funny, like when we're out and about and people recognize my husband as being active duty Air Force, they always thank him for a service. And you know, you're right, like as the spouse, we really are kind of brought along to follow and support our spouse's career. That's really what it is whenever we have to relocate or travel. And it's not. Has anything to do with me, it has to do with him and me being that support system for him. And then we're almost, you know, our maybe career or thoughts or desires or network are kind of laid to the wayside because we are supporting this thing that's bigger than we are. Of course we're supporting our country, which I'm extremely proud to be a military spouse. But you're right, there's so many women that just lose themselves.

Kelly Dockrell [00:22:52]:
Well, men and women. I'm sorry, but there's people that lose themselves being a spouse because you're right, they've got this very fulfilling career and then all of a sudden you get relocated and you' like, well, heck, you know, now what do I do? So it is funny because I definitely trust my God for timing and placement in my life because As I mentioned, I met my now husband in April of 2021, launched my company in October, and then, oddly enough, reconnected with my husband here in Arizona in April of the following year, just as my company started to blast off, like everything was going well. And then I reconnected with the guy I met in Hawaii. So I did immediately recognize that, like, wow, I was given this career at such a perfect time to know that if we end up overseas, I get to do this job from anywhere in the world. I mean, we've taken vacations. I've been on a cruise ship and worked and been able to be successful in that aspect. So for anybody, like a military spouse, it's definitely something that you can get into. And I think the beautiful thing for me as well is the network that I've gotten through, the other recruiters that I've worked with over the past four years.

Kelly Dockrell [00:24:00]:
These are lifelong friends. And, you know, I can be overseas and they're overseas as well. Like, everybody's traveling, that we're always going to have that connection and that network. So therefore, I can be a supportive spouse, but I can also have my own identity and my own career. Obviously, I love that.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:17]:
Like you talked about, like, keeping your identity through all those things. I think that's a super important thing that I don't think it's discussed enough. But one thing I do want to highlight is, and you told me this offline, because of the flexibility with recruiting, you're also doing some things on the base. Can you talk about that?

Kelly Dockrell [00:24:32]:
Yeah. Okay, so just be clear. I'm complete newlywed. We got married in December of last year, and it's only April. So I don't come from a military background, military family, nothing. So everything's new to me. But I am somebody that likes to be engaged. And I feel as though if I'm going to support this greater thing, which is the Air Force that's bigger than I am, then I want to be involved and I want to know what's going on, and I want people to know me as the support system for my husband.

Kelly Dockrell [00:25:01]:
So I did. I'm now officially the key support liaison for his squadron. And just the other day I was on base doing a commander's call just to get involved. And really the role is to support the spouses to where, if they need assistance for their families or deployments or whatever, that you can be the liaison to direct them to whatever they need within the unit. For me, it's really just trying to be involved and get to know everybody. And again, if I'm going to support his career and his endeavors, like, I want in. So you're not. You're not going to keep me out and by the wayside, but.

Kelly Dockrell [00:25:35]:
But it is great. And I think the one platform that I can definitely use is obviously talk about my entrepreneurship journey and, you know, as I get to know some of the spouses, you know, tell them how I started my company and, you know, maybe brainstorm with them to do something similar.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:51]:
Awesome. And you've been talking a lot about community, and I want you to kind of share a little bit about what you do, typically on a weekly basis within the recruiting community. That also keeps you sharp.

Kelly Dockrell [00:26:02]:
Yeah, I love that. I mean, look, we're all in this together. If you work a360 desk and you're in recruiting, like, we know it's nuts. And quite frankly, like, I sit in a room in my house by myself all day, so having this community and having people that know what it's like, that deal with the same frustrations, it's just great because you can be a cheerleader. I mean, back when we were in Ben's group, I was known for being the cheerleader of the group because I come from a really hectic career, especially in logistics transportation. So you never really see me get shaken. Like, if a candidate doesn't accept the role, if my client ghosts me, it honestly, I'm like, onto the next one. Like, so I like to cheer on other people.

Kelly Dockrell [00:26:44]:
I like to inspire people to just keep going. I know it's tough. We're all in this together and we do. I mean, I've got a few great communities that I'm involved with within the recruiting network that we hop on calls when we hop on every other Wednesday. Another one is Thursday. Friday, I got another one that meets on Fridays. I got another one that meets monthly. And that's like everybody all over the US And Canada.

Kelly Dockrell [00:27:08]:
And it is great to connect with those people because we're learning from one another. You know what, tech stack is working for you. What's not working for you? Hey, Kelly, I know that you work in logistics. Can you help me on a role? So I know back in the day and a lot of the old school recruiters will talk about it, they didn't talk to one another. This is all new, that recruiters are actually friendly and working together.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:29]:
Yeah. It's one of the key things I think that really helps a lot of people is finding the community and also finding accountability with other people. But before we jump over the quick Fire questions. You published a book.

Kelly Dockrell [00:27:40]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:41]:
Talk about that process. And what is the book?

Kelly Dockrell [00:27:43]:
Yeah, so the book is acclaimed Journey to Aloha. It's actually written in my maiden name, Kelly Dockrell, because I wrote it as Kelly Dockrell. So, long story short, I had the. The crazy, crazy part of my life is the journey from when I left corporate America and moved to Hawaii. And I told this story in, like, the Cliff Notes version many times. And it's an interesting story, but I never told the meat of the story, like, what really happened from the time I left Fort Lauderdale and then journeyed through the wilderness to get to Hawaii. Back in 2018 again, I felt like the Lord had called me to write a book, and I was like, shoot. Like, where do you start in terms of writing a book? And I remember it was that same day I saw a quote, and it was like, start with, you know, one step, one glass of water, one page.

Kelly Dockrell [00:28:33]:
So I was like, all right, I'll start writing a book. One page a day. In a year, I'll have 365 pages. So, sure enough, I wrote the book. I kept it on a Batman flash drive and just never did anything with it. And then about a year ago, I felt like the Lord woke me up in the morning and said, finish it. So I did. I went.

Kelly Dockrell [00:28:52]:
I printed out the whole thing. It cost me, like, 60 bucks to print out the whole book. I read through it, and I was blown away. I was like, I can't believe this is my story, because it just. It's so. It's such a wild, crazy story. So I did. I finished it.

Kelly Dockrell [00:29:05]:
I shopped it around with various publishers, and then I ended up publishing it with a Christian publisher called Westbow. So I do get very raw, and I tell the truth and everything that happened that transpired throughout this journey in my life. But of course, because it's a Christian publisher, you know, it's gotta be G rated.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:23]:
So a few things got exited out.

Kelly Dockrell [00:29:27]:
I guess it did. You can't use words like crazy, obviously. No F bombs. But, you know, I don't have children. And when I held the book for the first time, I was like, this is probably the closest, like, feeling that you could have in terms of, like, holding your child. And it's wild. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:45]:
And were you writing this book also when you had your recruiting company, or was it before?

Kelly Dockrell [00:29:49]:
Uh, nope, it was before. Uh, no, I lie. I wrote the book. I wrote the. The meat of the book and then put it to the side, and then I finished it last year. So Yeah, I was writing it while I had the recruiting company.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:02]:
What did your day look like between writing the book, your recruiting company and all the other things? Give me the structure of your day when you're heads deep doing that.

Kelly Dockrell [00:30:11]:
I think the beautiful thing about me is that I'm extremely disciplined and extremely motivated. So fortunately, because my husband's military, like we're up at 5:30 in the morning. We're based in Arizona. A lot of my business is on the east coast. So a lot of my calls, especially with clients and candidates, would usually take place starting at 6am and then spend the next three to four hours working on recruiting. Exercise and physical fitness is obviously super important to me. So try to sneak out around lunchtime to get that in, come back, do maybe three, four hours in the recruiting, and then take the time to work on the book. And that could go anywhere from like two to three hours a night.

Kelly Dockrell [00:30:52]:
Because not only am I writing the end of the story, but I'm also going through and kind of editing what was written to make it make sense.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:00]:
Okay, so it was a good like 2 to 3 hour commitment on top of the recruiting at night.

Kelly Dockrell [00:31:04]:
Oh, absolutely. And like, if anybody knows me, I'm always working on various projects and I'm always up to something new.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:12]:
Awesome. We cover a lot before we go. Jump over to the Quick Fire questions. Is there anything else you want to share or go deeper on that? Like we didn't get a chance to talk about.

Kelly Dockrell [00:31:21]:
No, I mean, you know, always looking for the next part of the journey. I think that, you know, my husband says it best. He's like, if you ever want to make God laugh, tell him your plans. So I know like people ask like, what are your plans? Look, I kind of look at, you know, I wrote a book and it's great and it's out there. It's been published, it's not the press release and everything hasn't really gone out yet. So I don't really know what's going to happen with it. If I truly said what I would like to do with it would be to, you know, get on stage and be more of a motivational inspirational speaker to anybody that feels stuck, whether you're stuck in a career, corporate, you know, golden handcuffs, for instance, like I was if you're stuck in a relationship that's not working for you or even like geographically speaking, if you're stuck, like I talked to a candidate yesterday that's like, oh, maybe one day me and my wife will get out of Minnesota because it's Cold. And it's like, well, what's stopping you? Life is short.

Kelly Dockrell [00:32:12]:
Move. So I feel like I could be inspiring to some to take a leap of faith, be courageous, be fearless. Like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Life is short. So get crazy, do what you want to do. Don't feel like there's anything that's limiting to you. You know, if you've got kids or whatever, this world is small. Go. Go live it.

Kelly Dockrell [00:32:34]:
Travel. Do what you want to do. So, yeah, ultimately, if that would be the trajectory of my life and my journey, I would love that. But first, like, recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:41]:
So what I'm getting out of this part of the conversation is I need you to go take a leap of faith and go move. Okay. Anyways, onto the quickfire questions. The Elite recruiter podcast has multiple summits coming up that you need to make sure that you are registered for. We have the AI recruiting summit 2025 coming up. And on top of that, finish the year strong. These two summits are going to help you move the needle, help you achieve your goals, help you achieve your dreams, and make 2025 the year that you started out and you wanted to be. Make sure you get registered and also stay tuned.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:12]:
Got something cooking for you guys. Working on another project that you guys are going to absolutely love. All right, see you guys in the summits and see you, you guys, soon. You've had a chance to talk to a lot of new recruiters. I know you're active in the community, always sharing, being a cheerleader for a lot of people. And that's one of the reasons why I want to bring you on is because you are that cheerleader for people that have no financial incentive for you, but if somebody else isn't in your shoes, they had a vision, they got inspired. They started their own recruiting company. They launched their own recruiting company without any background in recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:46]:
What's the number one piece of advice that you would give them to see success?

Kelly Dockrell [00:33:50]:
I would say get a mentor. Get a mentor, hire a coach, but surround yourself with successful people. I mean, even if you, you know, launched a company, if you could go, maybe work 1099 for somebody just to kind of learn from them, and if somebody was willing to take you on, you know, study, read, obviously YouTube, university, and then you just have to test it. Trial and error. In this industry, it's trial and error and it's a lot of pivoting if you get stuck doing one thing. If I was still doing my all pro cold email drip from 2021, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:25]:
What's been your favorite pivot?

Kelly Dockrell [00:34:26]:
I think all the pivots that I've had over the past three years, it seems like they come every six months in order to try something new, whether it's cold email campaigns, new tech stack, cold calling by phone, working with VAs overseas. So each pivot is trial and error, and it's a learning curve. But I've met some really cool people doing it.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:46]:
Awesome. What about, you know, you're in these groups, there's some recruiters that have been around the block 10, 20 years. You know, they're seeing the success that you've had with your own career, like living in other places of the world, potentially because of your husband's career. And they hit you up like, hey, like, you're seeing success, like, been around the block. I've been doing this. What advice would you have for me to kind of have, like, some of the things that you have?

Kelly Dockrell [00:35:10]:
I would say just drive your brand. Drive yourself. Okay? And I mentioned this on a post I put the other day. The reason why, when I say Gary Vee, Tony Robbins, Grant Cardone, when I say those names, we all know who I'm talking about. Why? Because they simply built a brand. They might not even have a great product, but we all know who they are, right? So same thing. I mean, everybody in recruiting space knows Benmina. Well, it's that same thing.

Kelly Dockrell [00:35:34]:
It's building your brand and posting your content. You're a celebrity, but making sure that you get your face out there, your logo out there. And look, everybody has like these egos. They say, like, if you get rejected, they say the pain of rejection for a lot of people is the same feeling as getting punched in the gut. They say psychologically, it's the exact same. So if you're getting rejected, you're not getting likes on your posts, whatever, keep posting. Because once people are getting rejected, even sales folks, once you get rejection, they close the door and they're like, oh, I'm not doing that anymore. I hurt too much.

Kelly Dockrell [00:36:10]:
Look, it's going to suck, but you just have to keep going with it. So put your face out there. If you've been doing this for 20 years, like, look, there's a reason why TikTok is such a big thing. Because people want to look at other people's faces all day, apparently. So flip open your phone. Like, do content. Get your face out there. That's going to drive success.

Kelly Dockrell [00:36:31]:
Because now people know that you're serious and authentic.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:34]:
If you want a Good laugh. If you don't feel like putting your face out there, you could do a podcast and show other people's faces.

Kelly Dockrell [00:36:41]:
Ding, ding, ding, ding. Touche.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:45]:
Anyways, and you've talked about all the learning, YouTube university and everything. Do you also read books, too?

Kelly Dockrell [00:36:50]:
Oh, gosh, I'm always reading.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:52]:
What's. What's been one book that's had the most impact in your career.

Kelly Dockrell [00:36:56]:
I mean, obviously going back to the four hour work week with Tim Ferriss, absolute game changer. Obviously. The only reason why I'm sitting here talking with you today is because in 2017, I finally read the Bible. And that to me was like, when I first read the Bible, if nobody's read it before, like, when you read it, it's a mind blowing experience. You're like, whoa. Like, because people don't talk about the real deal of the stories and they apply to everything. Everyday life, business, whatever. Of course I read.

Kelly Dockrell [00:37:23]:
You know, it's kind of a big one within the recruiting world. Like last year was like a hundred million leads. Alex Hormozi's books, that negotiation book that was by the FBI agent, read that when I first got involved. Forget the name of it right now, but I'm sure people know it. I've been kind of. I've been kind of sitting around reading my book lately, and my husband gets a kick out of it because he's in the middle of reading my book and he's not a reader. So I told him. I was like, the book actually, like, points to him at the end and it talks about him a lot and he's not a reader.

Kelly Dockrell [00:37:55]:
I was like, you don't have to read the book, but I've been reading my book and sometimes we joke around and we talk to each other through our dog. And my husband's like, yep, there's your mom reading your own book because she's obsessed with herself.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:07]:
Well, you're also going on a lot of podcasts and stuff like that, so you got to be like, ready to be able to point to which what?

Kelly Dockrell [00:38:12]:
I got to know what I wrote instead of wrote a book. Like, sometimes you're like, I've, you know, like, I. I lived it.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:19]:
But yeah, you know what you should do? You guys work out all the time. You, you should record it for audible or maybe even like, have somebody record it for you and just be like, just listen to it on your run.

Kelly Dockrell [00:38:29]:
Oh, that's a great point. I should have it. I should have it recorded by like a British dude too. Would you definitely have, like, A guy do the voice, giving everything about me and dating and boys and men. That'd be funny.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:45]:
Or maybe you have like two readers, like one a guy and one girl bouncing between.

Kelly Dockrell [00:38:48]:
Take your poison.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:51]:
Well, anyways, I know you've pivoted from like the old days of the all pro email to many different things. You have a favorite tech tool that's really helping you change the game.

Kelly Dockrell [00:38:59]:
Yeah. So I. Look, I've tried everything under the sun and the truth about me is that I hate tech tools. I'm a salesperson. If I get a lead come across my desk, I'm going to get on the phone and I'll close them. But as it relates to tech, it's super important and you have to keep up with it, but be the dumbest person in the room and hire people that do it better than you. So I've gone out and I've, you know, outsourced my marketing to like a US based company called Vantage Labs. They were very helpful in 2022 for me and we were able to niche down.

Kelly Dockrell [00:39:31]:
They sent out really pointed email campaigns within the logistics transportation industry. I then outsourced again. I was using instantly for a while. I think instantly has come a long way and I think that if it's something that you like to do and scrub emails and do the campaigns, great. And I mean, I've just switched out my tech stack. I don't know if you want me to mention that, but I'm now on Patrick's rec stack AI. Rec. Rec stack, yeah, rec stack AI.

Kelly Dockrell [00:39:59]:
And I'm very, very new to it. I mean, I literally just launched it like two days ago. So I tell everybody, like in our recruiting groups, I'm like, look, I'm gonna go try this out. I'll be the guinea pig and I'll throw, you know, the money at it or whatever and if it works, I'll bring you guys all in. If it doesn't work, well, I just screwed myself out of, you know, a few thousand dollars. So I did that a lot, especially last year. I outsourced to a company in the Philippines. I did a cold calling company last year where they were doing like 150 cold calls by phone a day.

Kelly Dockrell [00:40:32]:
And I told everybody on our recruitment calls, I was like, look, I'm going to try these guys out. If it works, I'll bring you in. And luckily I didn't bring them in because it's absolutely sucked. It was a terrible endar. But, but at least you're trying things.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:47]:
You're trying things.

Kelly Dockrell [00:40:47]:
I'M trying things and because I do feel like, okay, I'm on the mindset of, like, look, maybe the cold email drip campaigns are a thing that are kind of fizzling because how many spam emails are we all getting a day from everybody? But I do believe in the system that works. And even if it's just for branding and promotion, I think it's great. But having people that live in the Philippines calling on clients that are U.S. based from, like, Arizona number with a really strong accent is usually a turnoff. And they really weren't like, ciphering down the specific verticals that we work in. There were literally, as we I say, a lot of times throwing spaghetti at the wall. So that one sucked. But you got to try things.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:30]:
Okay, so you've tried a lot of things in the last four years, and you have. In your recruiting business, what is one of the biggest failures that you had to work through?

Kelly Dockrell [00:41:37]:
I don't know if I'd call anything that's happened a failure. I've had to work through, you know, obviously a company screwing me because, you know, we hired a couple candidates over there and they refused to pay and then fired the candidates and kind of went through that. Me, I just kind of brushed it to the side. And it's funny because of that. And it's a small industry and logistics. I had a girl that was interviewing for this old client of mine yesterday, and I told her, stay far, far, far, far away. So that was a learning curve. The other thing is, like, look, I've been talking to a lot of recruiters lately.

Kelly Dockrell [00:42:09]:
Of course, you know, I'm working on that recruiter collab book that I was mentioning too. And it does sound like a lot of recruiters are really struggling right now. You know, Q4, nobody was hiring. Everybody's firing their, like, talent acquisition staff internally. So why are they going to hire an outside recruiter? People aren't giving job orders and the placements like they used to. And I think in that regard it's like, dude, A, you have to pivot and B, like, don't sell yourself and give yourself preconceived notion that you're going to fail. Like, you literally have to get up every day in this industry. We get up every day unemployed.

Kelly Dockrell [00:42:44]:
Like, every day that you get up. Unless you're doing a retained search, which again, I don't. You're waking up unemployed and you have to go to work and sit in your chair and work as though you're working. I work like I'm working for somebody else. Like, I don't work as though, like, I'm an individual entrepreneur. I work like, I go into work to give it my all, to receive my paycheck at the end of the day.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:06]:
So I love it every day, like, wake up and work like you're unemployed.

Kelly Dockrell [00:43:10]:
100 was that. But, you know, put on that happy face and, you know, get to it.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:17]:
So with everything that you know now, like, you have the freedom to invest and to try new things, like, you're. You're doing well, you know, you can take this business and uproot yourself to another country and things wouldn't actually change. But with everything that you've learned, the successes, the failures, if you got a chance to go sit down with yourself in that first week after you got the calling to become a recruiter, you took the leap of faith to do it, what advice would you actually give yourself if you could go back in time?

Kelly Dockrell [00:43:46]:
I would tell myself, I'd say, hey, little Kelly, you are so much stronger and smarter, and you persevere better than anybody that I've ever met. You are an absolute rock star, and you are going to put your blood, sweat, tears into this, and it will be successful. But you just have to believe in yourself. And sometimes you're going to feel like you're alone and you're out there and like there's nobody listening or willing to help. But you got this because you are a powerhouse. You're an absolute freaking badass, and this is going to happen for you. So just keep doing what you're doing. Don't lose hope.

Kelly Dockrell [00:44:21]:
Have faith. Trust God. Always trust God. And I don't know, just everything's just going to fall in place the way that it was supposed to. So get excited. Get excited. Wipe those tears, girl.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:34]:
Wipe the tears away. Get excited. I love that. Well, you're in a lot of the communities, and I know we've talked about the communities, but a lot of times sitting in those communities, a lot of questions get asked. I've kind of popped in here and there, and I've seen them ask you questions, and typically it's like tactical questions which you're always happy and willing to share. Is there a question that you wish the other recruiters would ask you that they normally don't? And what would that answer be?

Kelly Dockrell [00:45:02]:
Okay, so I would say there's two things I wish recruiters would ask me. How I have the ability to sell so easily. Like, get on, you know, mock call with me and just learn how to get to the. Yes, I do wish that recruiters would take advantage of that with me because I'm good at it. I've been in sales my entire life. The other thing too is I wish that other people would say, hey, Cal, do you have a few minutes to look at my LinkedIn page and have any recommendations of what I should change that would allow me to stand out? Because again, I look at some of these guys LinkedIn pages and it's just very unimpressive, you know, and if I'm a company and that's it, that's the kicker, Ben, because like, if I'm a company and I'm hiring a recruiter, then I'm only compensating if my candidate does get placed. Like you would think that, okay, well, you know, I'm not paying them a salary, so therefore, like, who cares? But no, companies are looking at you as an extension of their company. You're the face that's talking to the potential employee and you're the one that's representing the company.

Kelly Dockrell [00:46:00]:
So they want somebody that has a strong business acumen that is very well spoken, that is going to, you know, speak from a high level overview of who the company is and what they are. And if you're not a representation of that, whether it's on your LinkedIn or your content, then unfortunately, even though companies aren't paying you like a salary per se, they're not going to want you to be invested in a business and have their name come out of your mouth.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:26]:
I love this, especially the first one, like, get on the phone with me. Yeah, I'll show you how to get to. Yes.

Kelly Dockrell [00:46:32]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:34]:
This has been an awesome conversation and it's always fun chatting with you and I'm glad we finally put this together. For anybody that's listening, if they want to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Kelly Dockrell [00:46:43]:
Oh, man. LinkedIn is my bread and butter. So of course on LinkedIn, I'm Kelly with Docrell. You know, because I'm still a newlywed getting used to my new last name, but Kelly Dockrell Brown, you can look me up through Acclaim Recruiters. Of course I am on Facebook because a lot of the recruiting community still engages very much on Facebook. Actually, the only reason why I'm still on Facebook, to be honest with you, is that I relaunched it when I got into recruiting because that's how a lot of the communities connect. You can also find me on Amazon if you want to purchase my book acclaimed Journey to Aloha. And it's also on Barnes and Noble.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:21]:
Awesome.

Kelly Dockrell [00:47:21]:
And like, maybe a Hundred other different platforms, and they sell like the ebook as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:25]:
And audible. Too soon, right?

Kelly Dockrell [00:47:28]:
Yes. Ben's actually going to be the one recording it.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:31]:
So you don't want to hear my voice.

Kelly Dockrell [00:47:33]:
Oh, I also. I have a YouTube channel as well. I have two YouTube channels. One is called Ms. Family, God and Son. So that's more geared towards my book. I've had that channel since 2017. But then, of course, acclaim recruiters.

Kelly Dockrell [00:47:47]:
And it's just kind of giving more access to people as I post content specifically for the recruiting agency. But it's fun. Because of recruiting, I'm able to do both. I'm able to promote my book and share my story. But of course, I'm also here to help people land the role of a lifetime.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:04]:
Well, that's awesome. This has been an awesome conversation. Like literally taking a leap, being a military spouse, writing a book. Before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Kelly Dockrell [00:48:14]:
No. I'm a happy person. I love what I do. The day that you don't love what you do, it's time to pivot. Go do something else. But, yeah, I'm very, very proud military spouse. I'm a very proud wife. I just turned 40, and I'm very proud of that as well.

Kelly Dockrell [00:48:30]:
Yeehaw. Yeah. Anybody can reach out to me. I'm super personable. I love helping others. I like connecting within this industry. And I'm really, really blessed and thankful every single day that I get to wake up and call myself a recruiter.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:44]:
I love that. Well, this has been an awesome conversation, and what I want you to do this year, guys, is take that leap of faith. Go all in on your dreams and put in the work and go crush 2025. All right, thank you, guys. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena.

Kelly Dockrell [00:49:02]:
If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.