How Ashley Woods Built a $10M Recruiting Desk While Traveling to 45 Countries: Vision, Systems, and the Digital Nomad Life

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast.

Ashley Woods [00:00:03]:
I think that the biggest thing if you want to travel the world or you just want to work remote and do what it is that you're doing, it's like having a clear vision and strategy that's going to pull you through all the moments of distractions because there's going to be a million of them is key.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:17]:
When you say systems, what does that actually mean?

Ashley Woods [00:00:20]:
Efficiency. It means creating efficiency. So when I say systems, I'm thinking almost predictable outcomes and just finding efficiencies to execute on those as fast as possible.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:32]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements. Every minute a recruiter spends on paperwork is lost time making placements. That's where SIN steps in. A modern employer of record and back office solution built to boost the bottom line. Ascend automates onboarding, payroll compliance and invoicing in one streamlined platform. It integrates effortlessly with all your tools and scales as you grow, saving you hours and cutting your operational costs significantly. Want less paperwork and more placements? Head over to ascend.com and see how Ascend can make the difference for you.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:20]:
I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast because this guest is absolutely living the Dre, traveling the world, being a digital nomad while absolutely still crushing and recruiting. She herself is running a $10 million desk while having a team that's running about $7 million. So we are going to dive into like how she set herself up to travel the world, how she stayed productive and efficient, how she's actually planning on building her business while doing all these crazy things. But most importantly, how you can have the time, how you can be time rich and wealthy as a recruiter because this industry is absolutely life changing. So, Ashley woods, so excited to have you on the podcast. Welcome.

Ashley Woods [00:02:03]:
Thank you. Happy to be here.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:05]:
We have so much to unpack. But before we do that, a quick 30 second introduction. Talk about your company before we do a dive into like how you even ended up in this space.

Ashley Woods [00:02:14]:
Perfect. So, Ashley Woods, I'm a partner at teama Solutions Group and founder of the Time Rich Recruiter. Spent the last eight years or so in recruitment building a freedom focused desk that allowed me to operate at a high level, supporting top tier clients and giving me the flexibility to live and travel around the world. More specifically, I specialize in contract recruiting, public sector staffing and Helping recruiters scale sustainable time rich businesses of their own.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:40]:
Awesome. So, okay, we have so much to unpack in this episode. I am excited because I have way too many questions, but let's, let's get started. How did you even end up in this crazy world of recruiting?

Ashley Woods [00:02:51]:
Ironically, I was recruited. So like most people, I had no idea what recruiting was. I had no idea it was an industry. I had no idea it existed. But it was actually between recruiting and real estate. And my first interview was with a company called Tech Systems. I think you came from Aerotech, so familiar with the Allegiance Group family. But really I just went into it and I had these two amazing female, like boss ladies in front of me.

Ashley Woods [00:03:17]:
And I still had no idea what recruiting was when I left the interview. But I knew I wanted to be like them, so that's kind of what drew me into the world of recruiting.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:26]:
Okay, so did you end up getting the job there?

Ashley Woods [00:03:28]:
Yeah, I got the job on the spot and had no idea what I was setting up for, but I was like, wow, these ladies are cool and I want to be like them.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:36]:
Okay, so let's just stop here. You took the job. We're looking at ways to make money. It was real estate or recruiting. You ended up going to the recruiting route, which is absolutely awesome. You saw people that you wanted to be like, how was your first, we'll say 60, 90 days in that recruiting chair?

Ashley Woods [00:03:53]:
Exciting. I came from the hospitality industry and I always explain to my friends, I'm like, recruiting is like hospitality, but like a big kid job version of it. So yeah, no, it was drinking from a fire hose. It was a lot of learning, super fast paced. And like, Tech Systems is really intense. It's kind of like the military of recruiting. So I just remember being like, yeah, this is fun, fast, cool. And I learned a whole lot.

Ashley Woods [00:04:17]:
So super exciting the first few months.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:20]:
And how long did you stay at Tech Systems before you made the jump to the next place?

Ashley Woods [00:04:24]:
2 and a half years, give or take.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:26]:
What spurred you on making that next change?

Ashley Woods [00:04:29]:
So I did the recruiting thing for just under a year, like 10 months. And then I got moved into the account management role. And then I had this dream and vision that I wanted to be in tech sales. So I actually left. I left recruiting and I went into a tech sales role. I was pretty burnt out by the time I left, so I was like, I don't know, this recruiting thing is a lot of work and I really wanted to be in tech sales. So that was kind of what, what led me out and then I realized that I didn't love tech sales. Like I really loved recruiting.

Ashley Woods [00:04:56]:
So I eventually came back about a year and a half later. It wasn't, it was short lived.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:01]:
I mean I will say those, what I call them college shops, like they are tax. And I know they rebranded recently. Like tech systems.

Ashley Woods [00:05:08]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:08]:
Like they grind you hard. And I remember like back then I, I actually, if you want a good laugh, I, you know, left Aerotech as an agency recruiter. Like, you know, top 10 in the building across the country. And then I made more money as an internal recruiter.

Ashley Woods [00:05:23]:
Yeah. But it's funny.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:27]:
So like I totally understand why people make a jump. But when you see a different kind of comp plan.

Ashley Woods [00:05:31]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:32]:
And what is actually capable. I've seen it pull so many people back into the recruiting chair.

Ashley Woods [00:05:37]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:37]:
How was jumping back in the recruiting chair again after leaving tech sales?

Ashley Woods [00:05:41]:
It was awesome. I think once that burnout piece had worn off and I saw that people were doing it at a much more sustainable pace, I was like, wow, I love this, like I love this space. I love working with people. I love that it's dynamic, that it changes every day, that it pushed me to learn. I was literally like, I went from 100 hour work weeks at tech systems to I could hardly pull through a full 30 hour week in tech sales because it was just so boring. So it was just the grind. Like I love the grind. But yeah, recruiting is just one of those things that kind of ticks a lot of boxes for me when it comes from like an engaging perspective.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:17]:
Okay. And you talked about, and we probably talked about this offline, but you wanted to design a desk that was able to give you freedom.

Ashley Woods [00:06:26]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:27]:
Did you plan on being a digital nomad the whole time or is it something that you like thought about doing after you jumped back into the recruiting chair again?

Ashley Woods [00:06:35]:
So I'm a very impulsive person, always have been. And when I was working at, so I worked for telecom, which is where I was selling tech solutions. And while I worked there, I just like dreamt of traveling the world. And then I got back into the recruiting chair with the idea that I was like, you know what, I know I can make a ton of money in recruiting. So I'm just going to hammer down for eight months, save a bunch of money and I'm moving to Bali. That was my idea. And I told my best friend. And then literally like two days later I quit because I found Tima, which is the group that I work for now.

Ashley Woods [00:07:07]:
And they had no rules. It Was you could be remote. You were your own incorporated business. And I was like, really? No rules. Like, I could go work in Bali. And they're like, yeah, go work in Bali. I was like, done. Left two days later.

Ashley Woods [00:07:22]:
And then, yeah, that kind of. I threw myself off the deep end, and I was like, yes, I get to travel the world and make money.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:28]:
Okay, so for those listening, we're going to focus a little bit on this digital Nomad and then jump back into the recruiting chair again, because I'm just absolutely fascinated. And it's been probably about 150 episodes since I've actually had a great conversation with a digital Nomad. Okay, so how many countries have you been to while building your recruiting business?

Ashley Woods [00:07:46]:
About 45.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:48]:
So you've been to 45 countries. Any favorites before?

Ashley Woods [00:07:52]:
Yeah, definitely favorites. Like, I mean, I'll go back to Bali. Bali's great. Definitely one of my top three. Portugal.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:58]:
Okay.

Ashley Woods [00:07:59]:
And. Oh, hard. Canary Islands, I think.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:05]:
And all these places you've been able to work from while traveling?

Ashley Woods [00:08:10]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:11]:
Okay. So when people travel, typically, like, they shut down their lives. Like, how do you keep a business going, keep a team going while traveling all across the globe?

Ashley Woods [00:08:25]:
Yeah. I think a question with challenges, I will. A lot of trial and error. However, you know, I think that the biggest thing, if you want to travel the world or you just want to work remote and do what it is that you're doing, it's like having a clear vision and strategy that's going to pull you through all the moments of distractions, because there's going to be a million of them is key. So I think we had talked about it, but I have a project. I called it Project Never Going Home. So I didn't know. Like, I just had the mentality and the mindset that I was going to do whatever it takes so that I didn't have to go back home because I wanted to see the world.

Ashley Woods [00:08:59]:
Right. And the world's big. It takes a lot of time. So that was, like, my main driver said, I had a pull strong enough. And you need this, right? Like, you need a vision. You need something that you're able to execute on, something that you can measure, because if you don't have those things, it's really hard to stay focused when all these distractions are coming at you.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:16]:
Okay, so Project Never Come Home. In the first year or the first few months, did you ever hit scenarios where you were just absolutely afraid that it wasn't going to work?

Ashley Woods [00:09:24]:
Oh, yeah, it was. It's pretty funny. Not funny. But I remember one time I had, like. Because when I left, I had a few, like, my savings that I spent very quickly. And I was at the point where, like, I was in Bali, I was eating like these $2 sandwiches, maybe a dollar sandwich, and I had like $20 left in my account waiting for my first paycheck. And, you know, sometimes clients pay late. Well, in this case, my clients was paying like three months late.

Ashley Woods [00:09:53]:
So I was like, very close to not having money and coming back home, but I just stuck it out. I was sleeping in, like $7 hostels, and I just made it work.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:02]:
So seven, like seven dollar hostels. Like, how is the Internet in these hostels? To keep on recruiting, I would say.

Ashley Woods [00:10:07]:
Like, in Spanish, it's muy masomenos. Very, very so. So it worked. And, you know, despite what people believe, like, it was a cool story. So even when the Internet sucked, I was so passionate about what I was doing that people gave me a lot of slack for that. I was like, hey, look, the Internet sucks because I'm here. And they'd be like, wow. And people would just forget that I had shitty Internet.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:30]:
Okay, so did you actually make this as part of your sales pitch? Yeah, it had a quite.

Ashley Woods [00:10:36]:
They loved it. And I think they loved it because, like, it was so unheard of. Like, this was pre Covid when people didn't even work remotely, that they're like, wow. So, you know, I aligned myself with clients who shared those types of values with me, and they were just like, hey, look, I don't care where you are, what you're doing, as long as you deliver me what I need. And I think that that's still true, right? If I was able to be on the other side of the world, but still provide tremendous amounts of value, people still use me. It became like a cool story to tell and people loved it.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:02]:
Okay, so first client was late, almost out of money. When did things start turning around where you actually was like, project, I'm never coming home is now working?

Ashley Woods [00:11:13]:
It was really when that client paid because it was like 8 placements in 1k check. So then I was like, okay, I got some Runway, because life is cheap over here. So, yeah, it was really that first six months, that was a little bit rough. And then, you know, like, after six months, things are recruiting. So long as you don't let off gas. Like, it just started flowing in.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:33]:
I want to know, like, how do you keep yourself structured during all this stuff? Like, what are some of the habits that you have to keep up or the KPIs that you try to keep yourself to While traveling to 45 countries, seeing the world, doing all the things that you love to do.

Ashley Woods [00:11:45]:
Honestly, I think Tech Systems just ingrained these habits into me that were so strong that I didn't change my habits when I moved locations. And I think it all starts with like a mindset shift. Like if you go into it and you're like, hey, look, I know that there's going to be a lot of distractions and you got to be honest with yourself about that because there will be. But these are my goals and these are the times that I'm going to do X things. So it really came down to discipline. How serious were you about hitting those goals? And once you're able to kind of shift to the mindset that like life doesn't change when I leave my house or apartment or whatever it is, like my life didn't change. It was the same structure. I worked from X10 to X time.

Ashley Woods [00:12:21]:
I took calls from X10 to X time. I woke up into calls in the middle of the night because I had to. Sometimes three times a night I would just like go to bed, wake up, go to bed, wake up. So yeah, it was just like not allowing the distractions to take away from, you know, basic goals that I had set out for the day.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:36]:
Okay, so I want to talk about the goals, I want to talk about the KPIs or whatever numbers. Because you said that you learned from Tech Systems how to work hard. Like what does work hard actually mean?

Ashley Woods [00:12:48]:
I mean, so I think it's a blend of things. Tech Systems was definitely like a KPI heavy organization, right? Like it was, I think you must do 25 candidate interviews, five in person interviews, et cetera. For me it was just like, put a little bit more focus on conversions. So what converts. And it was just like a trial and error of tracking data. I know that high output or high input, sorry, correlates with high output. Okay, so it was a bit of a balancing game, right? It's like, hey, where's my time converting? Where are these inputs that I'm putting and converting? And that's what I focused on. So it wasn't necessarily a number.

Ashley Woods [00:13:24]:
It was like, yeah, I need to close X amount of deals and a couple extra. So I always had this couple extra mentality. So honestly I just, I sticked with the basic tech systems metrics for the most part, but I didn't sacrifice quality for quantity.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:39]:
Oh, I love that. It's one of the things I just wanted to make sure that people, like understood that, like, you know, when you go travel the world, like, you're still having to put the same amount of effort and do your recruiting business as you were just hanging out before you started traveling.

Ashley Woods [00:13:53]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:53]:
What are some of the things that, like, if somebody's thinking about becoming a digital nomad, what are some of the things that you should think about ahead of time that you might not have, but you now wish you might have?

Ashley Woods [00:14:04]:
For me? Yeah, good question. I mean, having trialed and error many different countries, I think one of the things that you want to think of ahead of time is like, I. How can I get myself into a productive space immediately? Especially as I'm learning, right. I went to Bali, wouldn't recommend it as the first place if you work out of North America. But what Bali has really, that's really powerful is the network, Right. So you get this network effect of being surrounded by tons of motivated nomads. So I learned that, you know, Portugal has a very similar environment as Bali. So you get this high nomad environment where you can collaborate and be surrounded by people.

Ashley Woods [00:14:42]:
So, like, the proximity becomes a huge advantage. But it's setting up like, write your goals before you leave is my advice. Write your goals before you go onto the road. Have a clear strategy before you go on the road. And then the biggest things that you're going to want to look for is like Internet and workspaces. Always have a backup for Internet. Like not just one connection, have two most places. Well, now you can get Starlink.

Ashley Woods [00:15:05]:
Did not exist when I started, but yeah, always have a backup for Internet. Ask for speed tests. If you're going to an Airbnb, et cetera, ask for speed tests. But if someone's like kind of brand new, I would say start in co working and co living spaces because they're set up for people to do exactly that is to work and live remotely.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:25]:
And how did you end up finding like these communities of people to spend time with while traveling the world?

Ashley Woods [00:15:31]:
Trial and error as well, honestly. You know, again, going back to like, you got to look where these people hang out, right. Luckily, I went to Bali as one of my first locations and I saw that, like, hey, if I hang out in a co working space, I'm going to meet a lot of great people. They have networking events. I went to a lot of networking events. So again, it just comes back down to environment. Check out the environment before you go. Look.

Ashley Woods [00:15:54]:
If you're going to Cancun and you're going to be an all inclusive Resort where people are drinking all day, probably going to drink all day, you know, so you gotta check out the environment and set yourself up for success before you get there.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:08]:
Awesome. So I'm gonna jump over to like, the talking about the recruiting business. So you're really. Absolutely. Just crushing it with your desk. Like you had some struggle the first few months, had a client that was super late with payments, but then all of a sudden a placements came through. When you were on the road, how did you end up finding some of your best clients? And then how did you end up kind of growing into the niche that you specialize in now?

Ashley Woods [00:16:29]:
Been all over the place since I've been on the road as far as, like, strategy and type of clients that I serve go. It ultimately came down to one thing, like finding good clients who align with my values and who align with the quality of service that I want to give to other people. This is like a big trial and error thing. And, you know, you can't be afraid to fire a bad client. So I would say that, you know, finding good clients was definitely trial and error at the beginning. When I was in other countries, like, I honestly outsourced a lot of my BD and this was like the beginning of my BD or my outsourcing type of engagements because while I was sleeping, you know, meetings were being put into my calendar and people were setting meetings for me. So that was super effective for me. And it immediately gave me the opportunity to see that, hey, delegating is key for scaling.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:11]:
Okay, let's stop right there. Let's stop right there. Because I know a lot of recruiters that have tried outsourcing. It's been an absolute cluster. Excuse my language. F something. I've seen many recruiters try it once or twice. It didn't work out.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:22]:
Never do it again. On top of that, us recruiters are a bit of control freaks when it comes to everything that we do. How did you find people that could actually work your business development and help put meetings on the calendar?

Ashley Woods [00:17:37]:
I coach them. Yeah, I coach them. I think it, you know, it's like, yeah, if you take a plug and play solution, it might not play the way you want to play, but if you take the time to develop and build that relationship with the person who's doing the BD with you, you can train them to speak and use your language and use your approach. But yeah, it was a time investment. And I took 20 hours to coach them on how I would approach. And I was constantly, like, reviewing the process that we had. And we were constantly looking at ways to develop it to make it better. So it was like any other person that you're going to bring on board.

Ashley Woods [00:18:09]:
But yeah, I just invested time in them to ensure that I was being represented well. And I had them buy into my vision. Right. That was key.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:16]:
How did you get them to buy into your vision? We're going to talk about vision towards the end because it is such a big thing. So like, but how do you get a new person that you're training to outsource business development to buy into the vision that you have?

Ashley Woods [00:18:26]:
The feedback that I get is that it's just the energy that I put out when I talk about it. So it was drawing people in so that if I could get, you know, if I was so passionate and excited and sharing my vision with people, they would get excited and wanted to be part of that. And then I incentivized them. Right. Whether it was monetary, whether it was, you know, giving them an opportunity to learn something, like it was always about them as well. So it was a two way street.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:48]:
Okay, and how did you find that first BD person to outsource? Like, what's the secret?

Ashley Woods [00:18:55]:
I just interviewed a few agencies and landed on one I liked. I honestly didn't, didn't look too hard. It wasn't perfect, but I had signed the contract really fast and then I was like, okay, this isn't working, but I will show you how I want it to work. And then that was it.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:06]:
I love that. Okay, awesome. And then how did you. Because I know that you focus on the government contracting space within Canada and, and that's been a huge part of your business. I know here in the United States, because I actually do government contracting too. It is a super complex system. How did you break into what I'm guessing is probably just as complex over on the Canadian side when it comes to government contracting?

Ashley Woods [00:19:29]:
Honestly, this was a, a kudos to tech systems. Right. When I entered into the recruitment space, they immediately invested in me for like training for government. I had the privilege of working with, you know, 50 of our top billers that all specialize within Gov. They even went as far as like bringing in lawyers to teach us things that we can and cannot say. Right. So they educated us, they educated us about the process, they educated us about procurement, they educated us about just like the do's and don'ts of government recruiting and they empowered us to learn on our own. So I would say that like, yeah, it is a very complex environment, but it's actually A incredibly easy to recruit for once you know what you're doing.

Ashley Woods [00:20:09]:
So it was like an uphill climb. And then, you know, it's very systematic. Then we built systems, you know, to make that a lot easier. And yeah, I just learned the system really well. Spent a lot of time with procurement. And, yeah, I just got really curious.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:24]:
And this is just a, you know, a question for me. And not every. All the listeners. For the listeners, you guys could just tune out for the next, like, 10 seconds. Like, I do a lot of stuff, like, in the cleared space. We have a lot of intelligence agencies that do some crazy stuff here in the US Does Canada have, like, that, too, and, like, security clearance levels?

Ashley Woods [00:20:42]:
We do, and I don't support that space.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:44]:
Okay, yeah, probably smart.

Ashley Woods [00:20:49]:
More on, like, the federal side and, like, sensitive data side. But, like, where I place in the sweet spot is, like, tech government. So, like, enhancing systems and stuff, that's not so critical as far as it pertains to, like, data privacy. So I'm in a very, like, niche. Like, I play in the provincial side. I don't touch the federal side for those.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:06]:
I had to ask, and I think I'm just, like, gone for punishment over here. So. So, you know, you're traveling the world, like, how do you work with your clients and how do you help them solve their problems? So that way they keep on giving you more business.

Ashley Woods [00:21:19]:
I mean, it's twofold because it's like, in order to solve someone's problem, you really need to understand the problem. Right. So positioning yourself as a person could solve that problem was key. Government's a bit different because any vendor can get on a vendor list in public sector. In Canada, on the provincial side, if a vendor management system is used. So the barrier to entry is actually quite low. Now what gets complex is, like, the process on how everything works. So, I mean, it's twofold, right, to serve the clients.

Ashley Woods [00:21:45]:
No different than what you would do it at home, except for that it's done through Zoom. And occasionally I do fly back and take people for dinner and get to see them and understand their problems. But, yeah, it was a combination of things. Like, when I went on the road, I took existing clients with me, so clients that I already had good relationships with. They also brokered a lot of introductions to other clients. But, yeah, no, it was no different than anybody else working remotely does it. I got on Zoom, I met with them, and, you know, the first couple meetings are nothing about staffing. It's all about, like, talk to me about what's Going on in your world.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:18]:
Okay.

Ashley Woods [00:22:19]:
And I don't ask them anything about staffing or trying to pitch my services, actually, almost never. It just genuinely comes back to that.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:26]:
And how did you end up growing your team too? How did you get your first recruiter?

Ashley Woods [00:22:30]:
This was also. So it was kind of twofold. The way that TEMA works is like, we have our partner groups, okay. And under the partner groups are individuals that I brought into Tema. Not gonna lie. 90% of them are from tech.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:45]:
Based on their base hour and their low commissions that it's not a surprise.

Ashley Woods [00:22:48]:
It was great. It was super easy. And you know what? They are really structured and they kill it here. Building on the personal side, I honestly, like, I hired for intrinsic values.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:57]:
Okay.

Ashley Woods [00:22:57]:
So instead of. I hired people, generally speaking, without experience, and I was more interested in understanding, like, what motivated them and, like, whether their heart was in the right place and what kind of values they had. Versus can you recruit? Because anybody can recruit. It's pretty easy to train somebody how to do the recruiting. It's just like, how do you think? What do you care about? What motivates you? Like, it was more those intrinsic things that I really focused on, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:18]:
Perfect. And okay, you've said this. I think you've said it like six or seven times based on, like, me taking notes. Vision.

Ashley Woods [00:23:26]:
Vision.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:27]:
And it sounds like vision is super important and a fundamental that I feel like maybe a lot of people forget about.

Ashley Woods [00:23:33]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:33]:
How did you go about craft? Like, you know, I know you. It was the never coming home was the first vision, and I feel like it probably wasn't as fleshed out as it is now. But how did you keep that vision close to you? It became the daily energy that has driven you to build a company while seeing 45 countries.

Ashley Woods [00:23:52]:
I honestly think it was intuition. You know, I think as humans, we get intuitions on it, and you have a choice whether you can act on it or not act on it. And I think the only difference was that I didn't let fear hold me back. Like, my mentality was that, you know, what's the worst that happens? I go back to corporate and okay, it's pretty bad. So there was like that driver, like, I don't know, I just always had a draw towards what I was looking towards. Vision wasn't always clear. I honestly thought I wanted to be like, top recruiter of the world, build a large enterprise. But then I realized that that was a huge time sacrifice.

Ashley Woods [00:24:25]:
And actually I don't want to be rich. I don't need all that money, and I didn't want to be number one. So, yeah, the vision, I would say, is purely intuition. It was just I saw this thing, I wanted this thing. I wrote it down. Writing it down is key, by the way. I wrote it down and I just went for it.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:39]:
So if you're listening to this and you have goals, stop what you're doing unless you're driving or at the gym. Write your goals down.

Ashley Woods [00:24:47]:
Write them down.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:48]:
Do you think if you didn't write them down, you be where you're at right now?

Ashley Woods [00:24:52]:
I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know, but I think writing them down. Things started changing when I started writing them down, let's put it that way, in all aspects of my life.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:01]:
The Elite Recruiter podcast has multiple summits coming up that you need to make sure that you are registered for. We have the AI Recruiting Summit 2023 coming up, and on top of that, finish the year strong. These two summits are going to help you move the needle, help you achieve your goals, help you achieve your dreams, and make 2025 the year that you started out and you wanted it to be. Make sure you get registered and also stay tuned. Got something cooking for you guys. Working on another project that you guys are going to absolutely love. All right, see you guys at the summits and see you guys soon. What are some of the biggest pieces or learning lessons that you've actually gotten from being a digital nomad, from being.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:38]:
Becoming time rich and wealthy, too?

Ashley Woods [00:25:41]:
Yeah, I think it just, you know, traveling the road is probably the. It's one of the world's best. It's like the greatest teacher out there for sure. You learn a lot outside of just seeing different things, but you see how people live, you see how people interact. You interact with people in different languages. I think the biggest thing for me is that, you know, I was traveling into a lot of impoverished countries where, you know, people didn't really have much, but they were super happy. They had this joy about them that I wasn't so familiar or used to seeing in my own country. So I got more curious about, like, where this joy was coming from.

Ashley Woods [00:26:15]:
If they don't have anything materialistic. So being in those environments, seeing how they live, seeing how they communicate, like, it just inspired me and kind of changed my mentality that, like, hey, this is not actually what I want, because I want what they want. What they have is community, and they have, you know, happiness and joy. And, yeah, it really, just over time, especially shifted my mindset from Needing materialistic things to finding happiness within and you know, happiness in the little things. So yeah, you become really grateful if you're open to it and just being able to harness that and give back in different ways. So yeah, it was definitely the environment. It opened my eyes to a lot because I'm from Canada. Life is pretty good in Canada, pretty easy.

Ashley Woods [00:26:56]:
And like the biggest thing was like strangers off the street would invite you into their house for dinner just to get to know you. And you know, we're like, hey, that's kind of creepy, you know, but there it's just normal. It's like the community aspect was so big. So that was like the biggest game changer for me.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:12]:
And I want to talk about the second part of it, you know, the time rich, but I want to talk about wealthy and you know, I'm not going into ages or anything, but you're looking at retiring young within six years.

Ashley Woods [00:27:25]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:26]:
What are some of the things that you've set up for yourself to be able to do that?

Ashley Woods [00:27:30]:
The system, the system that I created my desk on because the way that I built it, it's just repeatable, it's sustainable, it's predictable. Things that aren't super common in recruiting but that exist. So I mean as recruiters, like we have this incredible opportunity to make big amounts of money and knowing what to do with that money is a differentiator. So yeah, no, I hired a wealth advisor. And for anyone listening, absolutely, you should have a wealth advisor. I have a fiduciary would recommend. But yeah, the biggest thing is just, hey, we make a lot of money, do something with it.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:06]:
And in six years when you retire, what does that look like? What does your life look like after that? Like what's your plan?

Ashley Woods [00:28:12]:
My plan is to not have a plan. No, I'm just kidding. My longer game is like I'd like to depending on where we pick as a permanent place to settle tbd. But I'd really like to like I picked up surfing when I was traveling and one of my goals is to actually just open a charity and help kids coming from low income families have better access to like surfboards and surf lessons. Whether it's surfing or another sport, depending on where we end up, I think that's what I would like to do is just give back to, you know, individuals and create opportunities for them. And it might even be like a business skills setting. Right. Like, you know, teach these individuals business skills, basic business skills, how to market themselves.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:55]:
There's a puppy in the background for those listening Wait, okay, so pause. You also travel with your pet?

Ashley Woods [00:29:04]:
Yeah. I didn't know I didn't always have her. Hey, puppy.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:11]:
I love that pets are part of your family.

Ashley Woods [00:29:13]:
They are, they are.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:15]:
I know we've unpacked a lot, and the last thing I want to talk about before we actually, like, jump over the quickfire questions. You've talked about vision being super important, but you've also talked about systems. When you say systems, what does that actually mean?

Ashley Woods [00:29:28]:
Efficiency. It means creating efficiency. So when I say systems, I'm thinking almost predictable outcomes and just finding efficiencies to execute on those as fast as possible. So, like, when I think of my world, systems that I've created are like anything that takes time. So going back to the basics, like, if you're starting out, take a piece of paper out and write down what you're doing every minute of the day for like three days. And then I started chunking those things off and I'm like, hey, what could be automated? What doesn't have to be me? The biggest part was like, what don't I have to do, right? Like, is the world going to end if I don't do this? 98% of the things are no. So I just started outsourcing. So when I talk about systems, I talk about, like, different technologies.

Ashley Woods [00:30:12]:
Not too many, just ones that make sense. So, like automating basic workflows, writing emails. I play in the gov space. So, like, I literally automated everything from. So like, when I get the requisition from the government, I pump it into an analyst, the analyst breaks it all down, highlights what's important, what's not, and then it populates my matrix for me. So, like, we have these really elaborate candidate matrices that candidates have to fill out. I have the AI preload the template with all of these questions so that they're giving me exactly what I know will score high. And then I have to then shortlist.

Ashley Woods [00:30:43]:
So I have another analyst that shortlists all the candidates. So these are the types of systems that I speak about now. It's going to be different depending on what space you play in. But sourcing, like, I always had a system to like, augment the sourcing. I had four sourcers and they all use different tech tools. So it opened a lot of doors for me. So those are like, examples of what I would use from like a tech system. It's just like really using the automation to do things that you shouldn't have to do.

Ashley Woods [00:31:10]:
The other systems that I speak of is like outsourcing, partnering Collaborating as much as you possibly can. So those systems and then just basic workflows. So, like, really ironing out what's going to convert, what has a good roi, what does not, what kind of principles you're going to run your desk by, what's acceptable, what's not, and having everything very, like, clear. Because when you have these clear outlines, you're able to work within those. So that's when I talk about systems. It's not just technical systems. It's like your approach to how you run your desk. Does that make sense?

Benjamin Mena [00:31:40]:
That makes perfect sense. And thank you for explaining that, because I know sometimes, like, listeners hear the word system and they're like, all right, so what does that actually mean? Giving you some details, like, do I need to do this, need to do that? And you just did a good job, like, kind of laying out a good structure of the understanding of that. So before we jump over to the quickfire questions, is there anything else that you want to share about, like, traveling the world, being a digital nomad, being smart with your money, building a team, or, you know, what you're doing in the recruiting desk?

Ashley Woods [00:32:06]:
That was a fully loaded question. Yeah. My biggest advice for the listeners is like, get coaches.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:13]:
Okay?

Ashley Woods [00:32:14]:
Get coaches. I have coaches for absolutely everything. And I, I think the biggest unrelated one is like, your nutrition and your lifestyle. So, like, your nutrition and your lifestyle doesn't stop when you get onto the road. So, like, having coaches that can help you eat healthy, who can hold you accountable to going to the gym, like, these things translate into your desk. Right. The healthier lifestyle you have, generally, you know, the better you do in business. At least that was the case for me.

Ashley Woods [00:32:36]:
So having coaches, you know, I have a Tony Robbins coach, I have financial coaches. So it's like, you know, I have never lost the, like, lifelong learning mentality, and I would suggest others do the same. It's just like, you know, lean on these people for their expertise. You don't need to learn everything. You should really just lean on the experts for what the experts are good at. And those are the things that have enabled me to kind of skyrocket is just I don't have to do everything on my own, nor do I want to. Like, when someone gives me a task, the first thing I think about is like, who can I delegate this, too? But, yeah, the coaching piece is huge.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:08]:
Okay, so coaching has been a huge game changer for you.

Ashley Woods [00:33:10]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:11]:
Did you automatically want to delegate stuff, or was that something that you had to force yourself to? Like? I needed to Actually delegate.

Ashley Woods [00:33:17]:
I was always pretty good at delegating, honestly. I think though, it came from, you know, just understanding competitive and comparative advantage and economics. This was like the hardest lesson for me to grasp my head around when my professor was explaining it to me. Cause he was using pizzas as an example. But yeah, it finally clicked and I was like, oh well, competitive and comparative advantage. Anything that's not competitive to me, I'm an outsource. And that's just kind of how I saw the world.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:42]:
Good approach to that. Well, so jumping over the quickfire questions and like I'm sure like some of these questions are just. And they don't need to be quick answers, but you're going through these like you're hiring recruiters, you're bringing recruiters on. And if one of those recruiters that like you're bringing on, that's never been a recruiter before, just starting in the industry in 2025, they sat down with you and said, if you can give me one piece of advice to have a successful career, what would it be?

Ashley Woods [00:34:05]:
It's a two part answer. I would say be humble and be curious. Recruiting is the most complex, simple industry out there. I feel there's so many facets of it. So like being curious and being a sponge and being open to learning will be a game changer. And that was probably the biggest game changer for me. So I would say it is a lifetime long learning opportunity and never stop learning. That would be my advice.

Ashley Woods [00:34:27]:
Always be open.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:30]:
Same question. But for somebody that's been in the game, you know, decade, two decades, what advice would you give to them if they sat down and asked you the same question?

Ashley Woods [00:34:38]:
Be open. No, I think, you know, it's such a busy environment. I would say my advice for them would be like never lose sight of the basics. So like the basic things, the fundamentals of recruiting and always have the clear vision. Yeah, because I think, you know, we're in that shiny object syndrome. Like we have shiny object syndrome. So. Yeah, I know.

Ashley Woods [00:34:58]:
I see the biggest thing with the recruiters that I work with that might be having a challenging year this year or last year is like at some point they stopped learning. So my advice is never stop learning. Always be open and stay ahead of it.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:11]:
Okay, perfect. Do you have a book that's had a huge impact on your career or life?

Ashley Woods [00:35:18]:
Yeah. I don't know if it was like biased because a really good sales guy was like, this book changed my sales career. So I just loved the book. But Pitch Anything by Oren KLAFF.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:29]:
All right, that's definitely a good one.

Ashley Woods [00:35:32]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:33]:
What is working right now for you in 2025 when it comes to business development?

Ashley Woods [00:35:39]:
Outside the box, like, thinking way outside the box, trying to drive value that falls outside of traditional recruitment is key. So, I mean, in your case, having a podcast where you're constantly creating value for people, podcasts are a great way to open the doors from a DD perspective. So I would say podcasts, white papers. One of the biggest things that I coach my recruiters to do is I'm like, you speak to 2030 candidates every single week. Absolutely record those calls and use the AI to derive something that you can give back to people. You're not even creating extra work. It's just like you're gaining insights, you're asking good questions, you're getting good insights, hopefully in one market. And then you give it back to people and create different value streams.

Ashley Woods [00:36:19]:
Right. Like, I think that's just such a low hanging fruit that people don't do.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:22]:
Yeah, you were right about that. I mean, we, we spend so much time doing things that we don't realize has so much value. And now you can use the AI to like, put it all together, supercharged.

Ashley Woods [00:36:33]:
The worst part is, like, lots of people are actually recording their calls, but they're not doing anything with that data. Like, that data is your ticket to bring value to people that they can't find online.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:44]:
Out of curiosity, like, when you're traveling the world and everything, like, what are you using for your phone lines to have all these conversations? Like, what program?

Ashley Woods [00:36:51]:
I usually try to keep everything on Google Meets because I find it has the best quality. Honestly, I push most people to WhatsApp. I'm like, hey, you have WhatsApp? Like, no. And I'm like, okay, I need you to download it because I have bad bandwidth. It's a joke, but. And then otherwise I use dial pad. So voip. But it's not as good as, like, Google Meets.

Ashley Woods [00:37:12]:
Google Meets is the best for me. Or if I'm in a low latency network area, then I use WhatsApp.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:18]:
Okay, man.

Ashley Woods [00:37:20]:
I think. Oh, go ahead. Voice notes. Voice notes on WhatsApp are king when you're having a long distance relationship. Like being able to talk to people. Like, my clients are like, wow, I love these voice notes.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:33]:
I think it's a funny thing. Cause I'm definitely an American when it comes to WhatsApp. Like, what is WhatsApp? I downloaded it because I'm doing some stuff like over in Europe and I reopened it I have 42,000 unread WhatsApp messages, and I'm like, what the heck happened? Like, how am I people? How are this many people messaging me? I have no clue what to do with it.

Ashley Woods [00:37:52]:
The rest of the world is WhatsApp.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:54]:
Literally, like, every time I go somewhere else outside the US they're like, you have a WhatsApp. And I'm like, what's a WhatsApp? You built a desk for yourself that's $10 million. You have a team of 10 that's doing about $7 million. You've traveled to 45 countries. What is one of the biggest failures that you've had to work through with your recruiting business?

Ashley Woods [00:38:14]:
I thought about this question. I would say at the beginning, it was like, lack of strategy.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:18]:
Okay?

Ashley Woods [00:38:18]:
Like, now I am very niche, right? And it wasn't always that way. So I would say, like, biggest failure was definitely lack of strategy and kind of too much trial and error and never honing down and committing to something. The other part was like, I lost 100 grand scaling. I would say some might see that as a failure. I saw it as a big learning lesson.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:37]:
You got to talk about this now, losing 100 grand scaling, like, what happened?

Ashley Woods [00:38:43]:
You know, I. There's a difference between, like, scaling to grow and scaling to grow effectively, I guess. So because I had a lack of strategy, I thought that more people were the answer to my problems. What it actually did for me. So I hired more people to kind of outsource some things. And what it actually did to me was create a whole lot of work, which was totally against my original vision. So I had a little bit of a conflict. And then Covid hit.

Ashley Woods [00:39:08]:
No, not Covid like the recession hit. Post Covid, like the decline we had. And I had, you know, people working for me, and it was a tough market, and instead of, you know, letting them go, I kept them all. And, yeah, we. We lost quite a bit. But, yeah, it all came down to scaling for the wrong reasons because I was trying to scale to get more time back, and, you know, I wasn't able to create the opportunity that I should have created for them. At the same time, big learning lesson.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:36]:
100K is definitely a learning lesson. Well, and this kind of flows into the next question and definitely some different examples. But if you got the chance to go back in time, sit down and give yourself advice. At the very beginning of your recruiting career at Tech Systems, when you were a baby recruiter, what advice would you give yourself?

Ashley Woods [00:39:53]:
God, it would just be curious. Be curious and be Open. I think I'm gonna go back. We already talked about this. But yeah, I would just be curious. Be open. The only thing I would have done a little bit differently is broke free sooner. Break free sooner.

Ashley Woods [00:40:05]:
Maybe that's my advice. And what I mean by that is like, you know, I was probably three weeks into the job at recruiting, and once I understood the business model behind it, I was like, wow, we should start our own. And I didn't for another four years. Right. But I was literally like sitting there crunching numbers. I was like, damn, there's a lot of money in that industry. So I guess my advice would be like, believe in yourself. Break free sooner and get a good coach along the way.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:27]:
Get a good coach. Break free. You know, when you first started, and this is something like, I don't blame people for not jumping out and starting their own business initially, especially if you're in one of those college shops, because it looks all so complex. And I don't know how many years ago that was, but at least for me, like, information wasn't as available to start your recruiting company, which now you can hire a coach. You can ask somebody. Like, recruiters now share so much information. That never happened back, I think 2006 when I started, everybody held stuff closer to the desk. So you can literally just now go ask somebody like Ashley, like, how the hell did you do it? Yeah, same question.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:04]:
Let's fast forward. You're like, you're a few months into your traveling. I know we've probably talked about, like some of the stuff, but if you get a chance to sit down with yourself knowing everything that you know now and you gave yourself advice while you're in Bali after your first few clients paid, what advice would you tell yourself?

Ashley Woods [00:41:19]:
I would tell myself to sit down and figure out what my end game was and I would make it very specific. And then one thing that I learned throughout my coaching is like, celebrate what that day is going to look like. Like, envision what that day is going to look like when you achieve that goal. Honestly, when you start embedding these future state, like good vibe feelings into you, it really helps with the draw. So it's like having a clear vision sitting down when it comes to, like, tactics, becoming an expert in one area, like, it doesn't have to be like developers, but like in one industry. So this would be something huge for me because, like, I played in private, public enterprise. Like, I was all over the place. And I was not as more of like a jack of all trades, not really good at Any one thing.

Ashley Woods [00:42:03]:
So the game changing started happening when I just niched down and went into one vertical and got really good at that one vertical because then, you know, I had a lot more to bring to the table when it came to conversation. So that would be my second thing. And then it's like execute, execute, execute and measure. Sorry, measuring is important. So it's like execute on the strategy that you're setting and measure what that success looks like and come back frequently to that strategy. Very, very basic things.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:33]:
But it's the basic things that a lot of people don't do.

Ashley Woods [00:42:37]:
Yeah. And you can't skip those. Especially the power of the data that we have now. It's a missed opportunity.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:43]:
What are your favorite data points that you like to track?

Ashley Woods [00:42:46]:
Honestly, just conversions. Love it. Interview and interview to close.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:52]:
When you're traveling, what does your tech stack look like overall?

Ashley Woods [00:42:55]:
Very lean. I just use like the basic AI tools, so ChatGPT, Gemini, etc. The way that I have my recruitment desk, like I haven't recruited in three or four years myself. In the day to day, I just partner with really excellent recruiters. So I would say that they are my biggest asset, the team that stands beside me. So going back to advice, it would be build a strong team around you would probably be my biggest piece of advice because yeah, I'd be nothing without them. I play with anything that comes out that brings value. But what I've found is that bad tools actually create a lot of work and we don't need to use a tool for the sake of using a tool.

Ashley Woods [00:43:29]:
Like it doesn't bring value to you. Stop using it.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:31]:
I've been joking with a lot of recruiters because like I love AI tools, I host an AI recruiting summit. But at the same time, I think a lot of these AI tools, like is actually costing recruiters money, like time, effort, energy, that they're missing billings because of it.

Ashley Woods [00:43:46]:
Learn the value of your time. Right. Like this is a big thing that I have in my course is like you need to understand what the dollar value is on an hour of your time. And that will help you prioritize what you should and should not do.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:59]:
Perfect. Last question before I let you go. You probably get asked by a lot of recruiters, you've had a lot of success. Like recruiters want to know tactically what you're doing, how you're traveling the world, all these things. Is there a question that you wish a recruiter would actually ask you, but they normally never do? And what would be that answer?

Ashley Woods [00:44:19]:
I Would love for them to ask me how to build a desk for the future. So, like, not today, not 12 months from now, but, like, the three to five year mark really is, like, where I think recruiters should be looking because it's not like, you know, it took me six years to build what I built. It wasn't an overnight thing and I wasn't always killing it. Right. Like, it took a lot of time. So building that strategy and having the right strategy in place to build for three to five years from now is key. And I just wish more recruiters asked me. But most of the questions I get are like, what do I change today to have results tomorrow? And like, you just, it doesn't work like that.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:54]:
I love that you laid it out like this. What seems or what people listening to might look at this as like, overnight success has been six years of grinding, six years of planning, six years of execution, all going into the conversation that we're having today.

Ashley Woods [00:45:12]:
Six years of failing.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:14]:
There we go.

Ashley Woods [00:45:15]:
Getting back up.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:16]:
Six years of failing. Getting back up. So if somebody, like, wants to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Ashley Woods [00:45:22]:
LinkedIn is probably the best option. Okay. Yeah, LinkedIn.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:26]:
And before I let you go, is there anything else that you would love to share with the listeners? No.

Ashley Woods [00:45:35]:
Yeah, no. I mean, the only thing I would say is, like, if you have questions, if you are curious, if there's anything I said today that you want to learn more about, like, I mean, I'm an open book, so reach out. Happy to share. I do not hold anything close to.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:47]:
My chest, and that is awesome. Thank you for reaching out, coming on. Because I think a lot of people and a lot of recruiters have this dream life of what they want it to be like. And you're a great example of living that dream life while still doing great with your billings, still crushing it. But you're achieving the dreams that you set out to achieve. So once again, thank you so much for reaching out. Ashley. This has been an awesome episode and I think we'll have a few more conversations throughout the year.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:18]:
There's some stuff that it looks like that you're putting together that I think recruiters should see.

Ashley Woods [00:46:22]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:23]:
When it's all live.

Ashley Woods [00:46:24]:
So I appreciate it.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:26]:
For the listeners, here's some things I want you guys to do. Spend a few hours walking out of your calendar, put together your vision, put together what you said, what your next 36 plus months is going to look like, and start executing and working towards that. Because recruiting is a opportunity for you to chase your dreams. Go crush it, guys. Every minute a recruiter spends on paperwork is lost time making placements. That's where Ascend steps in. A modern employer of record and back office solution built to boost the bottom line. Ascend automates onboarding, payroll compliance and invoicing in one streamlined platform.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:03]:
It integrates effortlessly with all your tools and scales as you grow, saving you hours and cutting your operational costs significantly. Want less paperwork and more placements? Head over to ascend.com and see how Ascend can make the difference for you. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit, subscribe and leave a rating.