The Road to Independence: Launching Her Own Recruitment Firm with Madison Loomis

Intro [00:00:00]:

Welcome to the elite recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:17]:

This is gonna be an awesome episode of the elite recruiter podcast. But before we get started, the elite recruiter community is getting started on December 1st. If you would like a Access to it beforehand, check out the link in the show notes. I'd love to have you in as we get ready to get launched. You will see a few things moving around, but everything will be ready on December 1st To rock and roll. And on top of that, I am pulling together some of the best speakers that we have had for a recruiter Growth summit making 2024 your best year yet. That's gonna be January 15th to 19th. So Stay tuned.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:53]:

You will see sign ups for that, but it's gonna be exciting. Really just I know 2023 has been a interesting Year for many. So let's put that behind us and make sure that we make 2024 our best year, so stay tuned. I'm excited about this episode of the elite recruiter podcast. I have my special guest, Madison Loomis, talking about making that jump. She went from corporate recruiting to her own firm. And I know so often we talk like, we hear the stories, like, you should go work at a agency before launching. I love that she jumped internally because, I mean, that that was my story too.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:32]:

I jumped from an internal recruiter to a year on search firm, and I am excited about her sharing the story To inspire and help others grow. So, Madison, welcome to the podcast.

Madison Loomis [00:01:41]:

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I, was shocked when you reached out. Like I told her, I was like, what?

Benjamin Mena [00:01:47]:

You want

Madison Loomis [00:01:47]:

to be on the podcast?

Benjamin Mena [00:01:49]:

Honestly, I started seeing you online, started seeing the interactions that you were having, found out about your story. And One of my favorite things to do is share stories that where people are at in this relatability and knowing that they could do it too, and I thought you'd be the perfect guest for that, Zoe. Welcome, Madison.

Madison Loomis [00:02:07]:

So much. Appreciate it.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:08]:

So how did you even get started in the recruiting space?

Madison Loomis [00:02:13]:

Yeah. That's a great question. So like many, I did not grow up saying I wanna be a recruiter. It's one of those things where I found out along the way. I always had a gift to gab that I wanted to do something helping people. And so I remember my mom saying, well, you should check out HR. So I did an internship. I I actually worked at the alumni association at my school doing cold calling for donations, And I was just somehow naturally gifted at asking alumni for money, and I was like, well, okay.

Madison Loomis [00:02:43]:

Like, that's a skill set. Right? That's transferrable. And then I actually ended up getting a part time role. I was in school working with a nonprofit health care center doing recruitment for nurses and doctors and Medical assistance, I loved it, but nonprofit spaces, a lot of times, their budgets and stuff go basically by I the year. And so I was graduating college, and they basically said, hey. You can say part time, but we don't have a full time role. So I somehow connected with somebody that was in technical recruiting and made that jump. And She was a great mentor, but that was kind of like my 1st gig out of, school into recruiting was in the engineering space on the agency side, but Not with a big tech firm.

Madison Loomis [00:03:31]:

It was actually with a start up, so I had a very different kind of start to the recruitment scene.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:38]:

I think, starting at a start up is fantabulous just because you're handling so many different things.

Madison Loomis [00:03:45]:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we wear boots to ground. It was like go to the Tech After 5 conference, do a giveaway of a Fitbit, Like, knock on people's doors, find different companies, and go stay in hotels in Charlotte and Greenville. And It was I mean, we didn't have many resources at all, but it taught me all the things that I think you miss out on When you are just in a big company where it's like, here's this technology and that technology, and here's a database of 500,000,000 contacts. So I actually am very, very thankful because I had the best mentor there, and it was a blast.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:21]:

And one more thing, like, for listeners, if you're looking at Startups, one of the cool things about startups, like I said, is that you get to cover so many things. And, yes, it is nice to go work at a large company. They're like, we need you to fly to this beach location for a while, but when it comes down to the rest of your career, like, the impact of things that you're gonna learn, those smaller companies Yeah. Are huge.

Madison Loomis [00:04:42]:

Yes. And it was just working like, we primarily worked with other start ups in the tech space, so it was, like, just super Gritty and resourceful and finding creative workarounds for pretty much everything we did.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:56]:

And I'm sure that you're using some of those workarounds and some of that grit right

Madison Loomis [00:05:00]:

now. Yes. Every day.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:03]:

And so so fast forward, like, you lost your own agency. What made you finally decide to make that jump?

Madison Loomis [00:05:13]:

Yeah. I think it was a bunch of different things. I'd always knew that I wanted To, you know, start my own agency, but it was just a matter of timing. And, you know, life has its funny ways of Bringing you places that you didn't think you'd be. And so, you know, I was in tech for the better part of about 7, 8 years and and just seeing the layoffs, and I was like, well, you know, I'm not laid off, but it it could be just a matter of time here. So, you know, when you're, And not to to boast, but when you are a top performer and when you have consistently done a good job, it's like, you know, you're building someone else's dream if you're working in a start up. And so it was like I'd seen the frameworks. I knew how to build from the ground up, but I was doing it for someone else.

Madison Loomis [00:05:57]:

And So for me, it really hit a wall when I just started to think, like, I know how to do this. I just need to have the courage to jump and do it and be okay with kind of that Small, you know, shorter period of building it up and ramping it up. And and my partner is just Awesome. And saw the potential in me, and it kinda said, like, just do it. You know? Like, I've got your back. Just do it. You're great at what you do. And so for me, it was just like, okay.

Madison Loomis [00:06:26]:

If I'm not gonna do it or if I'm gonna do it, like, now is the best time while the economy is a little bit shaky.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:32]:

And he he let me ask you a question. Mhmm. The firm the firm that you left to to make your own

Madison Loomis [00:06:36]:

job Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:37]:

Did they end up doing layoffs down the road?

Madison Loomis [00:06:40]:

So they had done several layoffs, or I don't remember how many rounds of it, and I had survived those. So I was like, let's see. I'm in the clear. You know? But then it's like, Who would have known? I don't know. You know? And I'm not speaking ill on them. I think they're a great company, but it was just like, let me take matters into my own hands. You know? I'm not just gonna wait To be like, oh, I don't have a job anymore. You know? Or so.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:04]:

So it's one of those things I was just like, wait. Would you have gotten laid off anyways? And there's so many people that have gotten impacted by layoffs this year.

Madison Loomis [00:07:11]:

I know.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:11]:

And it

Madison Loomis [00:07:12]:

It's a toss-up. Maybe.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:15]:

And well, let me ask you another question on this.

Madison Loomis [00:07:17]:

Mhmm.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:18]:

The person that told you to make the jump and believed in you Mhmm. If you didn't have that person, would you still have made that jump?

Madison Loomis [00:07:26]:

Probably not. And I don't I I will say it was several people.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:30]:

Okay.

Madison Loomis [00:07:30]:

As I had told you personally, I I started the business in not in partnership in the same business with my brother, but he is a PA, which is a space that we work within. And so Between him and my boyfriend and just my family and support system, I mean, they were all like, just do it, Maddie. You know? Like, you know you can do it, and it and there might you might have a few hard months, but do it. You know? Like, we believe in you. And I I really don't think I would have because I had been so used to just getting the paycheck and so used to, you know, when you work in tech, you get paid well. I mean, there's no doubt about that. You know? So it's like, oh gosh. You live this 1 lifestyle, and now it's like no more $8 lattes for you.

Madison Loomis [00:08:14]:

So, yeah, I don't think I would have.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:17]:

Okay. And can you tell the listeners about your current company?

Madison Loomis [00:08:20]:

Sure. So we do advanced practice recruitment. We actually are kind of, like, unique value proposition is that we don't do the percentage of base salary for, a fee placement. So It's a flat fee, and the reason why I like that and why I wanted to do that is because I think a lot of times, clients almost feel like they're incentivized to pick the most Cost effective person rather than the best fit. So it kind of alleviates that on their end of like, hey. You're gonna pay the same amount no matter who you pick, So just pick who you want. And then on the candidate side, it's like, hey. We're not benchmarking you and pushing 1 person forward or advocating for 1 candidate more than the other because there's a larger or a smaller fee.

Madison Loomis [00:09:04]:

And so candidates feel like, okay. No matter what, like, I'm gonna be presented in the same manner alongside the other people. So I think it creates a very fair process. So we primarily focus on nurse practitioners, physician assistants, and medical doctors.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:22]:

Oh, fantabulous. And I have seen, like, a lot of people, like, talking about those flat fees and a pickup of chain doing different things in this in the market just to differentiate yourself, and I I Yeah. Take it your customers are loving it.

Madison Loomis [00:09:36]:

Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people one of the first pushbacks we get is, like, I can't do the percentage of salary thing, And they're sick of these big agencies coming in and then charging them percentage of salary or or selling them on kind of the contract stuff, the locum stuff. And it's like, I've I've heard of people charging 40 50% on these contracts, and I'm like, that's gotta be short lived. You know, you're underpaying people and overcharging clients, and at some point, someone's gonna catch on to that, and you're not gonna be the good guy. So I think for me, it was a no brainer, and I think that a lot of people have appreciated kind of that alleviation factor in the fee.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:16]:

And because of that, you guys have also had some really good growth with your team over the last year 10 months from you starting in the your company.

Madison Loomis [00:10:24]:

Yeah. Yeah. And, actually, I think LinkedIn, I put the years, but I started last year, so it's been about a year. We're coming up from near. Yeah. Sorry. That's my fault. But, yeah, I've been able to grow it.

Madison Loomis [00:10:34]:

I mean, we're not anywhere near where I want to be. But with that being said, I've got a fantastic team of really talented recruiters who make my Life just so much easier because as you know, as an entrepreneur, I mean, the weeks can get very long, and it can get very lonely. And so, I I couldn't be I wouldn't be able to do it without them.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:54]:

Awesome. And one of the questions is, you know, I know I actually had my LLC in place before I made the jump and before I left The internal recruiting Mhmm. What are some of the things that you started doing? Are we were you thinking about making this jump the whole time?

Madison Loomis [00:11:10]:

I wouldn't say the whole time. I really liked my job, and I loved the people that I worked with. It wasn't that I was unhappy with my role. It was more so just that, like, I knew I had music still left inside of me, and I knew that one day I wanted to do this. And it was like, now is the best time if I'm going to do it. And so it was kinda just like a no brainer, but I I really don't think, there wasn't, like, Tons and tons of like, I hate my job. I can't wait to start my a to c. Like, they're just like, okay.

Madison Loomis [00:11:40]:

Like, now is the time. Let's do it. And it kinda happened in very quickly too. So, Yeah. It was it wasn't a long planning period. Like, I didn't have the business for a few months before I quit. Like, I Open the LLC, and within 2 weeks, I put in my notice.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:57]:

That's fantabulous. Yeah. Yeah.

Madison Loomis [00:12:00]:

I was like, go big or go home. You know? So, yeah, that was that.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:05]:

What are some of the foundational things that you did when you first started that helped you succeed?

Madison Loomis [00:12:12]:

Yeah. So I think I think about this a lot, from my kind of, I guess, not only upbringing, but also just what I learned working in start ups is being able to kinda deal with the delay, if you will, or the building phase in that. The 1st 3 to 6 months of any recruiter that's Starting out or, you know, starting in in an agency, whether it's beginning of their career or making a pivot like I did, is being able to know that, like, you might not make money for the 1st 3 months. And that actually in my mind is a good sign because You want to build relationships and you want to brand yourself so that you're actually looking at the long term impact rather than just becoming a transactional recruiter of, like, oh, it's my 1st month, and I hit, you know, 25 k in billings. It's like, okay. Great. But Did they give you more placements? Are those, like, short lived contracts? Like, how did you know, like, you can't have that depth of a relationship so quickly, unless maybe you've been in your industry for just so so long that you already have that there. But for me, it was like, okay.

Madison Loomis [00:13:16]:

Take the time now To kind of sacrifice, right, in terms of placements so that when you do start making placements, it's a domino effect, And you get referrals, and you get repeat business, and you're doing it the right way rather than just cutting corners.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:32]:

Now were you doing, like, a lot of BD work or those early days? What did your days look like?

Madison Loomis [00:13:38]:

Oh, gosh. Not a lot of sleep, lots of caffeine, panic attacks, you know, the usual no. I think, it was a lot of business development. It was a lot of seeing what Conferences I could attend, what networks I could join, like finding the right kind of corners to position myself in, and just a lot of Branding, getting the word out on different social media channels, connecting with people that I had placed, you know, a decade ago in health care that We're still a part of my network, but I hadn't really been in touch with them because I'd been in the tech scene. And so really just trying to build genuine relationships Without the goal in mind of being, like, to get a client or to get business or to make a placement of just, here's what I'm doing. Like, I wanna share it with you, and there's Absolutely no pitch. It's just this is what we're doing, and through that sorry. Go ahead.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:30]:

When you were, like, kind of talking about that, explaining that to people and sharing your story, like social selling Yeah. Did you get did you get clients from that?

Madison Loomis [00:14:40]:

Yeah. 100%. Yep. And at first, I think I learned kind of the depth of relationship from my own experience in terms of We had a few clients at first that were like, yeah. You can work on this role, and we were one of 10 recruiters. And it was like, they didn't give a trap about Me, you know, and I'm over here, like, sending them coffees and gift baskets, and they're like, thanks, I guess. You know? Like, we don't even know you. So I think it was a lot of, understanding the type of client that we wanted to work with too and so not just Accepting any and every client because for a candidate experience, you also just don't wanna become that agency recruiter.

Madison Loomis [00:15:19]:

It's just like, Get closest to the dollar and make the quickest placement, but you wanna build a brand because it it's no longer about the company that you're working with. It's about The longevity and the impact that you're making.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:33]:

So I think one of the biggest mistakes that I see with a lot of people that are making that jump, they're not sharing their story publicly of what they're doing. Mhmm. And I've been you know, I I and I I think this is kind of, like, maybe us really old g's that have been, like, on LinkedIn since The good old days when I had, like, a 1000000 people. Like, LinkedIn algorithm has changed, but and I'm seeing people that are actively sharing their stories and actively sharing what they're doing, and they're picking up clients just on that.

Madison Loomis [00:15:58]:

Oh, yeah. Yes. I mean, I've had people reach out to me, and I'm like, well, who else are you talking to? You know? Like, who's our Competition here, and everybody that's worked in an agency have been trained to say that. So and they're like, oh, AMN and Jackson and Coker and Merritt Hawkins. And I'm sitting there like, Hey. How is my small shop being compared to these, like, absolute gigantic companies? And it, you know, it's a blessing, but I think it truly is based on the fact that I'm not afraid to share my story, and I'm, I think very real on LinkedIn. I don't just post a bunch of, like, shmarby stuff, and and I try to be authentic. And I think that resonates with a lot of people who are sick of these big agencies that just give them 1 pitch and it it holds absolutely no weight.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:47]:

Okay. So social selling was a huge win for you. What other kind of, and you went to a lot of events and networking stuff. That was another win for you.

Madison Loomis [00:16:54]:

To the

Benjamin Mena [00:16:54]:

What other things were you doing those early days to pick up new business?

Madison Loomis [00:17:00]:

I think the best thing for me was, defining exactly who I wanted to work with and not straying from that. So, like, we work with People that are under 500 employees, orthopedics, neuro, spine, and we have some clients that are outliers, of course, but, Really understanding in market mapping where those opportunities lie and not just going out blindly And taking in any type of business that was willing to work with us. And because I think there's plenty of companies that, like I said, are working with multiple agencies, and it doesn't cost many things. So they're like, sure. We are hiring a nurse practitioner here. And then there's no relationship, so you can't make a placement. And there's some, like, alarming statistic that, you know, like, 17% of contingent placements actually end up Being a win when there's multiple recruiters, I don't know the exacts of it, but it's like we switched to a retained model. If you wanna partner with us, you've gotta have some skin in the game.

Madison Loomis [00:18:01]:

And I think that was a huge game changer for me in that knowing our value, knowing we're dang good recruiters, and we can get the job done just as well as these big companies, but we're gonna do it differently than them, and that's why we require x, y, and z, and not not just accepting anybody Who's not willing to partner with us on that end. You know? And I I think that's important too, because a lot of people just go out and You'll work with me. Great. Let's go. You know? And I don't think that's good long term. So I think business development on that was like doing your research prior to. And then, honestly, with the social selling, I did a lot of Loom videos of just like this. I mean, me saying, hey.

Madison Loomis [00:18:44]:

I'm Maddie. Here's what we're doing. Like, You're interested? Let me know. And you'd be surprised at how many people enjoy that approach rather than, like, the, We've done x, y, and z, and we're the largest like, they don't wanna hear that anymore. So yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:01]:

I think that's one thing, I've been talking with a lot of people, the power of personalized videos.

Madison Loomis [00:19:07]:

Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:09]:

Yep. And I I know there's many of us, like, you know, even though I'm a podcast host, sometimes I don't like being in front of a camera. I hate to say that. Yeah. But I think the way technology is, like, it's easy to write a chat GPT email. It's easy to, like, you know, Have, like, this email that's been used since 1980 when it comes to recruiting. Yeah. But then a a video is just so authentic.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:32]:

What advice would you give to recruiters that are just starting using video for their business development?

Madison Loomis [00:19:38]:

I would say, be yourself because I think a lot of people get nervous because they think they have to come across as this polished, like, well spoken. And, yeah, of to some degree, like, you can't get on there and be like, what's up, dude? But, you know, be authentic to who you are because your personality is going To be your, you know, UVP, unique value proposition, and people work with people that they like. And there are gonna be some people who probably think that I am I mean, I'm wearing bright pink headphones, so some people are probably gonna be like, this chick's too much for me. You know? Like, she posts too much on LinkedIn, and that's okay. Like, there's somebody that's gonna go, I like what she's doing. I appreciate that she's authentic and genuine about it, and, you know, we'll work with her. So I think everybody needs to be confident in just showing up as you are without needing to have, like, a script in front of you or without needing to have a business suit on. You know, like most of my videos I do in my gym clothes.

Madison Loomis [00:20:37]:

I mean, if somebody's gonna judge me for that, I probably don't wanna work with them anyway.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:43]:

That's awesome. And then you you went from contingent for a while. When did you make that switch to retained?

Madison Loomis [00:20:48]:

Mhmm. So we started in November of last Dear, the first few clients were contingent. And I'll say this. I do have some clients where I actually do contingent on until I feel like I can do retain on that because you also don't wanna do a retainer with somebody that you're never gonna win for, and they want they need to want you to win too in order for that partnership to work. But I started retaining clients around February. So I guess November, December, January, February took me about 4 months. And that it was like a game changer, and I actually did some work coaching with Mark Whitby. I'm sure you're familiar with him.

Madison Loomis [00:21:23]:

Yeah. He's he's a trademark in the recruiting industry, and so I did some, consulting or coaching with him. And that's where I think everything for me, like, when it came to just Knowing your value and making sure that you're bringing that to the table every time. And if somebody doesn't respect that, then they don't need to be your client.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:41]:

That is awesome. And got a a Mark Whitby question. Yes. Was hiring Mark Whitby as a coach a complete game changer for you in your 1st year?

Madison Loomis [00:21:49]:

Yes. Yep. 100%. I think he's great. I think he, really focuses on, Like, having a niche and being specific and not moving away from that because I think that a lot of people think, Like, when one thing doesn't work right away, like, I need to pivot. I need to move. I need to change. I need to change something.

Madison Loomis [00:22:09]:

But sometimes it's not that it's not broken. It just needs time. It just needs, You know, a little bit of tweaks here and there, and so I think that was helpful for me because I'm somebody that is Somewhat, I guess, it would be the word compulsive. Like, you know, oh, this doesn't work. I'm gonna change it entirely, and now this is, like, our whole new way of doing things. And so it kinda brought me back earth of like, no. Your idea's great, and we just gotta hone in on certain things.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:37]:

That is awesome. And it's it's a common theme cross, like, a lot of top performers is either they've dealt with a coach, they're using a coach, or there's been a coach that's has some sort of, like, imprint of success on them. Yeah. So completely smart doing that.

Madison Loomis [00:22:51]:

Definitely.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:52]:

Now I I do have a kind of a, just I know you started off in health care, And I know, like, tech is fun. Tech is exciting. Yeah. Why did you not initially chase tech as an agency recruiter?

Madison Loomis [00:23:05]:

Two reasons. The first one, from a compliance standpoint, because I had enough respect for my last employer that I did have a noncompete. So, For me, it was just respecting the fact that I didn't wanna muddy the waters there because I did really enjoy that company. And, again, I didn't leave because I was unhappy. It was just like I knew that I wanted to do this, and so, I knew down the road if it got to that point that I'd have the opportunities in the network. But For me, also, health care was my roots. It's where I started in recruiting, and it's you know, I I studied health sciences in school. I originally wanted to be a speech language pathologist.

Madison Loomis [00:23:40]:

If you can't tell, I like to talk a lot. So, for me, it was like, yeah. I'm gonna go become a medical provider, and then I started recruiting and thought, I can save a lot of money by not going to graduate school, just recruiting them instead. So I did that, and, I think it was also just I saw the market kind of going down, and it was one of those just time and place things. Health Care is very consistent. It doesn't move as quickly. It might not be as lucrative on a per placement basis, but I I truly think I've fallen back in love with health care and that The people that I work with day in and day out, no offense to engineers, but sometimes it's you work in a space, you get it. It's like Trying to make someone talk to you that doesn't wanna talk to you.

Madison Loomis [00:24:23]:

And in health care, you're talking to people that are Very personable. They are very focused on the impact of what they're doing, and I think it's very rewarding despite the fact that I'm not the actual provider To know that, like, oh, like, I've just hired 2 MPs at this place, and now they're able to open their clinic And start seeing patients in this underserved community like that, to me, is what fulfills me.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:52]:

So you hit a thing that I absolutely love. Mhmm. Fulfillment. Mhmm. Loving the space and loving the industry.

Madison Loomis [00:25:00]:

Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:01]:

For a recruiter that might not like the industry they're in, what would you recommend to them to do to find an industry that they could fall in love with?

Madison Loomis [00:25:10]:

I think it goes back to understanding where your own interests lie. Like, for me, I didn't grow up, like, tinkering with Engineering stuff and coding, like, I wouldn't even know where to start, which is crazy because I was a decent engineer recruiter, I thought. You know? Like, was a good performer, but, I I grew up in a family that was very sports oriented. I've Growing up, I'm a fitness addict. Like, I love working out. And so for me, it was also about my niches within orthopedics, neurospine, pain management, medicine, like, those are all very similar, and most of the providers that I work with all have an athletic background. Like, they were inspired to go in orthopedics because they, you know, were a collegiate baseball player or whatever. And so I think it's narrowing down, like, What do you like talking about? If you're somebody that enjoys, you know, talking about the stock market and investments, like, maybe you should go into financial services.

Madison Loomis [00:26:10]:

If you're somebody that enjoys, like, criminal cases and documentaries, like, go into legal recruiting. If you're somebody that, you know, is tinkers and and does stuff in their shop and builds cars, go into the automotive industry. And so I think it's really just being honest with yourself and not just following the dollar because when you enjoy what you do, it makes it that much easier to chase it even if It's a lower paying industry, and I think everybody's, for a long time, was obsessed with tech until now, and then they're like, oh, crap. What do I do? You know?

Benjamin Mena [00:26:44]:

I've seen I've seen a lot of that, and it's one of those things I think is also sometimes hard for a recruiter to do is they've developed this identity in this space, and you have to Sometimes, like, shed the identity to get a to create a new identity to start chasing something else.

Madison Loomis [00:27:00]:

Yeah. For sure. And I think, I mean, that can change, and I've also seen it too where people are like, well, I build up my entire network, and I'd argue like, well, so did I for about a decade in tech, but That doesn't mean that those people go away. Like, I still keep in touch with people that are in my network. I'm not recruiting them, but that doesn't mean that I've gotta close the door, because who knows what the future, you know, holds, but it it does mean that you can pivot and still be just as successful because, I'm sure you agree you're a recruiter. You you've done this for a long time. If you're a good recruiter in one thing, you can be a good recruiter in another thing. It's just where do you wanna recruit?

Benjamin Mena [00:27:39]:

That's awesome. Well, before we switch over to the next part of the conversation, is there anything else you'd love to share about what we've covered?

Madison Loomis [00:27:47]:

No. I think we're good. Makes sense for the next part.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:51]:

On to the quick fire questions, and remember, these Alright. Don't have to be Quick answers.

Madison Loomis [00:27:55]:

Okay. Get me nervous every year.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:59]:

I I didn't explain that one time, and I think somebody gave, like it was, like, 3 second answers, and I'm like, Little more context, please. Little more. Alright. So

Madison Loomis [00:28:08]:

Like cash cow.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:09]:

Pretty much. Mhmm. So, You know, there's been a, like, 2023, 2022, there's been a lot of people that just started off in recruiting, like, brand new to the industry. Mhmm. Like, looking at 2024 Yeah. What advice would you give to somebody that is brand new and just getting started with recruiting?

Madison Loomis [00:28:28]:

I guess my biggest thing would be to find a mentor. For me, I've had so many great ones throughout my Career. One of them is one of my first mentors is actually one of my first clients when I started my business 10 years later or however long later. And I think that's so important because when you find people who have been there and done that, you don't have to guess. And so it's worth either every penny or worth paying it forward to find somebody that is willing To not only believe in you, but to help you. And and I don't mean somebody that you, you know, are texting 247. Please don't do that to people. But, you know, I had LA who was my 1st, you know, out of college boss, and she's been a career long mentor for me, and we still stay in touch.

Madison Loomis [00:29:20]:

And She actually just started her own business again where she's doing more of, like, interview prep and stuff, and, you know, it's just Then I've got Val, and I've got all these different people that I feel like without them, I wouldn't be where I am today.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:36]:

Find a mentor. Yeah. Number 1.

Madison Loomis [00:29:38]:

And pay it forward.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:40]:

Oh, that's a good that's a good key. And you do a lot of that online.

Madison Loomis [00:29:43]:

Yes. I try.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:46]:

Definitely make sure to follow her on LinkedIn so that way you can see all the a lot of the paying forward she does.

Madison Loomis [00:29:50]:

I finish. Thank you.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:51]:

So So when it comes to, like, the recruiters that have been around the block 5, 10, 20, 25 years, what advice would you give to them to be successful or see more success?

Madison Loomis [00:30:02]:

Yeah. I'll answer that in the way that I have to remind myself consistently is, like, don't get away from The basics from the foundations. I think we live in a world where there's so much talk and concern about This technology and that technology and AI and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And we forget that, like, the basis of what we're doing is building, creating relationships, and it's a relationship driven business. And you cannot do that with technology and AI 247. So I think it's being able to stay true to your original kind of Mindset around recruiting, whatever that might be, and then also not being so Old fashioned that you're not open to hearing new things and learning from others. Like, I think no matter what room you're in, you shouldn't be the smartest person. And if you are, like, Find a different room because what are you gonna learn there? Like, with unless you're teaching others, you're just staying the same.

Madison Loomis [00:31:05]:

So I do think that there is room for people to also not be closed minded to doing things differently if that does allow them to work smarter, not harder.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:16]:

Awesome. Has there been a book that's had a huge impact on your own personal success?

Madison Loomis [00:31:22]:

Yeah. I'm gonna be honest. I'm not a huge, Huge reader. I know that probably sounds like, you know, a lot of people come on here, but they're like, yes. I read all the time. I really don't. I talk to people a lot, and I pick people's brain a lot. I think for me, and it's probably gonna be an untraditional answer, is the bible.

Madison Loomis [00:31:40]:

For me, it has kept me able to carry on when and everybody that owns their own business knows this where you really just wanna pop and you're like, okay. Let me keep my grace and composure. Let me remember my scripture, and let's move on. For me, I think my faith has allowed me to overcome some of those really low points, knowing that I'm here. I'm doing this, and if he brought me to it, he's gonna bring me through it.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:10]:

So almost said I came into that.

Madison Loomis [00:32:13]:

I'm in. I'll say it for you.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:17]:

There we go. What do you think is the future of AI with recruiting?

Madison Loomis [00:32:24]:

I don't know. I could take my guess, but I think, it's a very real thing that's going on, and I I can't say that I don't use it at all because I do, but I also think that it somewhat gets us stuck in this, like, Analysis paralysis of it sometimes too because it's like I'll use the example of Dripify, which most recruiters that are listening to this might have heard of it or using it. I find when I use Dripify, yes, it solves the issue of being able to send out, you know, the volume concept around it and the following up. But then I don't remember the conversation, and it's not personalized. Whereas if I reached out to somebody because I saw something that they posted on LinkedIn. Something on their profile resonated with me or there's a mutual, like, we both do CrossFit or we both like the Patriots, whatever. Then I'm remembering that conversation, and it's meaning more to me. And so I've seen more ROI on those conversations than any trip campaign that I've done.

Madison Loomis [00:33:27]:

And I think that can take away from, like, again, the the bones of what we do. And so I think it's it's useful. Right? Everybody uses Chat GPT when somebody's like, I need a job description. I'm like, sure. But, I don't think it should be used in a way that replaces the human connection and the human element of recruitment. I think that is going to separate The good from the great and the lazy from just the people that are, like, trying to spray and pray. I don't even know how they say it.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:01]:

Spray breaks.

Madison Loomis [00:34:02]:

Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:05]:

What do you think has been a huge impact on your own personal success?

Madison Loomis [00:34:09]:

I believe my upbringing. I think that I was raised in an extremely competitive, family, which As it's good, then it's bad. Right? And my parents were just always really good role models. I mean, they were Schoolteachers, they owned a business. They were entrepreneurs themself. They still are. My dad retired and then decided to take on three Part time jobs, literally a day after he retired, it was like I thought that was kind of the opposite of what we're doing here, and they've always just been hustlers. And so I think seeing that firsthand and seeing that, like, you can do it and you can Raise 3 kids, and you can be all the things and still be great at it.

Madison Loomis [00:34:53]:

I really tip my hat off to my parents, because I don't have children, and I don't know how they did this. Like, they were strict on us, and they held really high expectations, but they also Really taught us life skills that I think a lot of that we don't learn in school. We owned a restaurant, and so by the time I was 10, I was washing dishes, and by the time I was 14, I was, you know, waiting on tables. And I I think those things are what actually helped me in my career, not, like, learning math equations in school.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:30]:

That's awesome. So looking back on your career Mhmm. If you could have a cup of coffee with yourself when you're just getting started with recruiting.

Madison Loomis [00:35:39]:

Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:39]:

What advice would you give yourself?

Madison Loomis [00:35:42]:

Let me think about that one. I think it would be around and I say this kind of twofold because I do believe that You wouldn't be where you are today without the decisions that you made along the way and whether that's good decisions or bad decisions. I do think that I tend to I'm a worrier naturally, and I'm also one that's like, I get an idea in my head and I'm Like, nothing's gonna stop me, and, there are times where I've made changes from jobs where there was probably a lot more left to learn. And if I look back on my career, like, I'd probably label myself a job hopper, and and I come about that genuinely that, I mean, I stayed in roles for, you know, 2 years, but I I never stayed somewhere for 10 years to really see, like, how to optimize that career. But I also knew that, like, being an entrepreneur was what I ultimately wanted to do. And every time I made a move, it was For a reason, whether it was like, I'm gonna have the opportunity to learn this here that I'm not getting here, or I'm gonna be able to make more money here to where I Save more and be able to open my business. So it was all strategic. It wasn't just like, by the whim of my, you know, pants, I did it.

Madison Loomis [00:36:59]:

But I think that if I had a little bit more staying power initially in my career, that I probably could've Maybe potentially gotten to this point sooner, but then again, like, I wouldn't change it for the world because along the way, again, I've just met Tremendous amounts of really high value people, and I'm I'm very thankful for that.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:22]:

Awesome. Well, Madison, before I let you go, is there anything else that you'd love to share with the listeners?

Madison Loomis [00:37:27]:

Yeah. I mean, I think, we talked we talked about this briefly, but I just I like to make it a point because I think a lot of people that are starting out into their or thinking about starting an agency think that they have to be this $1,000,000 biller that They have to have all their ducks in a row. And we've spoke on this of, like, the difference between trying to build, like, a mega million agency versus that of a lifestyle. And and what I'll say to that is you don't have to become The largest agency in order to do this successfully. You can be a lifestyle small shop recruitment firm Where you have the flexibility and you have a lifestyle where you don't have to sacrifice your family, your friends, and other parts of your life. And I think that's super important to tell people, and I'm always open to talking about it if someone's interested after the podcast of, like, don't work your life away just for the sake of saying, like, I compete with x, y, and z. I think that's really important because I I think there's a lot of hype around it on LinkedIn and and bragging about it, but at the end of the day, you know, nothing is more successful to me than achieving that balance.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:41]:

I think, like, when you talk about balance and being an entrepreneur, it's such a tough word.

Madison Loomis [00:38:47]:

It is. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:50]:

But what I this is just from also my personally, my my self and my wife and many other people that we know. Mhmm. Yep. We're not chasing to be, like, a $1,000,000 a year producer, but, like, we've been able to create some opportunities Mhmm. With our business that we would have never had before. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you said that because I like, What you do creates the opportunities that you have.

Madison Loomis [00:39:18]:

Mhmm. And I think a lot of times too that, people equate success of a company to their billings. And I would say that if you look at a lot of these top performing companies or shops that are, you know, billing what they are, If you look to the quality of their placements and you call their candidates and you call their clients, like, are they being transactional just to say that they're a 1,000,000,000, you know, they're doing x, y, and z, or maybe they are just that good. In that case, kudos to you. But, I mean, realistically, if you're a 1 man band or you're a small shop, There is gonna be a limit to the bandwidth that you can take on. Unless you're like a trust fund baby, then again, no judgment. Like, Really happy for you, but if you're not and you're like me and your parents are school teachers, then I think it's just about Being consistent and knowing that, like, it's okay if you're not billing $1,000,000 your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 10th year. Like, you can Still live a good life and be a successful company without being this mega thing.

Madison Loomis [00:40:24]:

And I think that's super important for people to know because I I think a lot of people chase that and then end up quitting because they're not that.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:32]:

Oh, and it's the It's figuring out figuring out your definition of success. Yeah. Yep. Uh-huh. Somebody else's definition. Do not take somebody else's definition. Like, Take your inspiration, but figure out your definition of success for you, yourself, and your family.

Madison Loomis [00:40:49]:

100%. I mean, I think You you can't sacrifice your family and your children and the other parts of your life that you love So that you can make x amount more dollars because at the end of life, you're not gonna think about that. You're gonna think like, oh, I wish I had taken that time, you know, On the holiday to spend with my family rather than sitting behind my laptop. And I think the 1st few years, of course, there's give and take, and sacrifices you make, but, Ultimately, you you shouldn't be at that point once you're established and and running smoothly.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:24]:

Awesome. Well, Madison, I just wanna say thank you so much for coming on podcast. Yeah.

Madison Loomis [00:41:27]:

Of course. Thank you

Benjamin Mena [00:41:28]:

for having me. Inspiration to make your own jump, inspiration. I think what you've finished on was so important about figuring out your definition of success. Yeah. I don't think it's what a lot of people spend time doing. And if you're listening to this podcast, Spin 5, 10 minutes or more. What do you want success to look at look like for yourself for this next year?

Madison Loomis [00:41:51]:

Yep. Definitely.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:53]:

Alright. Well, for the listeners, I hope you guys crush it. And once again, thank you, Madison.

Madison Loomis [00:41:58]:

Yes. Thank you so much. It's been fun.

Intro [00:42:00]:

Thanks for listening to this episode of the elite recruiter podcast with Benjamin Menna. If you enjoyed, hit