How Top Recruiters Win with Smart AI Systems in 2025: Secrets to Scaling, Automating, and Standing Out with Martin Gutierrez and SourceWhale

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast, know the type of.

Martin Gutierrez [00:00:04]:
AI that you're looking for, right? AI is not AI is not AI. Right. It's not like AI is AI is AI like you have to know what you want. You have to be intentional about what it is that you want.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:12]:
I truly believe, and this is my perfect world, that, like, the goal of AI is to take us back to the the 1980s recruiter. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements. Attention, recruiters. Source Whale has exciting news. Starting July 30th, you can try two powerful new AI tools for free. Inbox Agent is like an assistant in your inbox, drafting replies in your voice and automating follow ups. Notetaker joins your calls, transcribes everything and instantly creates AI powered summaries that are automatically logged into your CRM.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:01]:
That means Source Whale handles the busy work while you focus on placements. Don't wait. Head to source whale.com free-trial to start your free trial. I am so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast because here's the thing. Every single big biller, every single team that we have on that is winning. One of the secrets to winning is having systems in place. It's not just the chaos of, like, trying to get things done and realizing that you got nothing done. At the end of the day, the best way to do that, the best way to move the buildings, the best way to make those placements is to have a consistent system in place.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:37]:
So here's the key. You win through systems, you win through hard work. Which is why I am so excited to actually have Martin on here today to talk about just how to actually use systems to win, how to set yourself up for success, how to set your team up for success. And one of the things I'm excited about, Martin, I actually had a friend that called me about a week ago. He was just like, we cannot live without some of these tools that we have in place. And he actually named the tool. And so I'm excited that you guys are here today. So welcome to the podcast, Martin.

Martin Gutierrez [00:02:04]:
Well, thank you for having me, man. This is really exciting. I think you're very right. I'm a big buff when it comes to systems and implementing them and having the right technology in place to get the job done. And I'm curious, did your friend name drop Source? Well, in There.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:18]:
He did, actually. I was kind of messing with him. I was like, if I could. If I was not allowed to take one tool away from you for his team and has. I think he has almost like 15, 16 recruiters now. He was like, source. Well, I was like, all right, cool. Like, I need.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:32]:
I. I need to get to know these guys, even though now I need to know why.

Martin Gutierrez [00:02:34]:
Now I need to know why. Why the hell did you say source? Well, out of all companies, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:39]:
Well, anyways, real quick, before we get started, quick, 30 seconds about yourself.

Martin Gutierrez [00:02:44]:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely appreciate that, man. So, like I said, like you mentioned, my name is Martin. I head up business development here at Source Whale. I've been here now going up on three years, coming in September. So that's extremely exciting, being able to see that growth from the very beginning, you know, to where we are now and moving into the enterprise space and doing some more of these exciting things. But, you know, how to. How the hell did I end up in the recruitment space, right? How did I get in here? And I guess my story doesn't follow the convenient tracks that a lot of your guests have, right? Like, kind of just fell into this 30 years ago, or kind of fell into this 20 years ago.

Martin Gutierrez [00:03:18]:
For me, it was like everybody accidental in the recruitment space. But, you know, I was in the fitness industry, and I knew I wanted to get into tech sales. I knew I wanted to get into, you know, selling a product, getting more into that side of the world. And I had a good mentor at the time that, you know, pushed me towards becoming an account executive. And I did. I went that route. And I thought it was all rainbows and butterflies and sunshine and you're supposed to close everybody, and you talk to people and everybody wants to speak to you. And I realized really quick that that was not going to be the case.

Martin Gutierrez [00:03:47]:
Right? People don't want to always speak to you. You need to lead with a good value prompt. You, you know, what's in it for them, show them, you know them. And these are all things that, although I applied it heavily before, I never applied it in this new role. It wasn't clicking for me. So I did okay. But I took a step back and I said, you know what? Like, let me see where I'm at today in my career. And I want to move into more of the.

Martin Gutierrez [00:04:08]:
The SDR side, right? Like, what is the game of business before the business happens, right? Like, before we get to the table, like, how are we getting people interested? And then I learned more about the SDR role. And I said, you know what, let me get into that. And that's really where it all started for me. More on the talent acquisition in house side of things. I was over at hireasy and I was, you know, tasked there growing out a team as a team lead, and things went great. My growth was, you know, on par with what I wanted. It was phenomenal for me at the time. And it was during a time where everybody was, you know, all these tech companies were getting investments and, you know, we were hiring 10 SDRs a month.

Martin Gutierrez [00:04:41]:
It felt like. And it's like, how are we going to keep this pace, right? And I found a little nook for myself, right? I found something for myself there, an opportunity. I realized, how am I going to stand out, right? How do I get back into management, what I love to do? And it was, I need to prove myself or show myself as a leader here, right? Show what I can do, right? I've realized I'm good at the job and I know that I can build out teams. This is the experience that I've had in the past. I know how to get the message across. So I put myself more in that leadership role and I started leaning into it more, asking more about it. And, you know, sooner or later, a team lead of mine, and this is where it gets funny and, you know, things happen when they're supposed to and how they're supposed to. But a team lead that I worked with at the time, he actually messaged me and he said, hey, man, I got hit up from source Whale.

Martin Gutierrez [00:05:29]:
And you know, it's a great opportunity. It's building out a whole team. The entire, you know, you're going to be working with the go to market director. Like, it's going to be very early stages. And for me, that's just not where I see myself right now. And that's something that's right up your alley. Just like, wow, okay, let's, let's take a call, man. Let's see what this is about.

Martin Gutierrez [00:05:45]:
I took the call, hit it off with our CRO, hit it off with my head of go to market at the time. And I just knew this was the place to be. And, you know, speaking to recruiters, it was like, if I don't have a recruitment background, how am I going to learn the space? How am I going to talk to these people? And it's really when I entrench myself in demos and reading and webinars and events and all the other things that really build that book of knowledge for yourself, for us and that's, you know, I know he's had 30 seconds, but that's a long winded answer of how I ended up where I am today. And, you know, doing what we get.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:15]:
To do well, before we start doing a deeper dive on that. Like, what is source? Well, and like a quick, you know, 30 seconds.

Martin Gutierrez [00:06:23]:
Yeah. What is source? Well, I mean, I know you said 30 seconds, but the reality is, like, how much time do you have? Right? And at its core, right at its core, sourcewell is going to help recruiters, right, Stay consistent. So if you're doing business development, candidate outreach, or, you know, you're nurturing some of your current clients, it makes sure that the right messaging goes out every single step at the right time across the right channels when they need to. Right? And the beauty of it, we integrate with over a hundred CRMs and sourcing sites. So, you know, instead of adding more noise to your tech stack, we help get that condensed, right, we bring it down and, you know, we help you with that tech bloat, so to speak. So it's not about spamming more right now, right? Spam, not about spamming, it's not about sending thousands of messages. It's about following up better, following up cleaner, more concise. That's.

Martin Gutierrez [00:07:15]:
That's Source Whale.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:16]:
Well, you started in the SDR world or at Hire Easy, you probably had an opportunity to walk away from recruiting. What do you love about us recruiters that really just. You're still here?

Martin Gutierrez [00:07:28]:
That's a phenomenal question, actually. And that's when I interview SDRs, you know, a lot of times they ask me that, right, because they want to, they eventually want to either move into account management or account executive. And some of the things they want to know is how good are the people like our icp, our total addressable market, right? Do they want to buy, do they want to purchase? Right? And I always tell them, right, you're selling a salespeople, you're not selling to a controller, somebody in finance, you know, a cfo. You're talking to people that, you know, solo builders. You're talking to people that, you know, their wallet is affected day to day, right? Their income is affected by their direct results or lack thereof. So working at Source Whale, right, selling to recruiters, I know that the bunch is an interesting bunch that is willing and open to talk. As long as you're coming with something that's relevant to them. Like that is.

Martin Gutierrez [00:08:14]:
That is just a fact, right? Like, you reach out messaging that's relevant to them, you're not Spamming. You're consistent and you're persistent. You're going to win, you know, the hearts of many, many owners and decision makers. And just for that, they'll take some conversations with you. Just from the persistence aspect of things.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:30]:
You have a good heartbeat of what's happening in the environment right now. Yeah, like with how many recruiters you guys are talking to, the data behind the scenes, I want to spend a few minutes like talking about like the current trends, not like success stories, but like, because I'm talking to a lot of recruiters like myself, outside of the recruiting that I personally do day to day also is, hey, guys, I still need time to recruit y'.

Martin Gutierrez [00:08:55]:
All.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:55]:
But here's the thing, like, I'm talking to a lot of people right now. And 2025 was supposed to be the year where things got a little easier because 2024 for many was tough. But it seems like 2025 things are also getting challenging for maybe different reasons. You know, market changes, the economy changes, artificial intelligence, shitty AI and like all sorts of other things. Like what are you seeing right now? But here's the thing, I still know recruiters is absolutely crushing it, right? Like just destroying the market. What are you guys seeing in the conversations that you're talking to?

Martin Gutierrez [00:09:37]:
Yeah, good, good question. I mean, you just said it there right at the end, right? The ones that are destroying it, you still know. Ones that are destroying it, you still have the 1%. The ones that come on this podcast, right? Like those, those far and few in between, those guys have the relationships already built. Those people, they have the relationships already built. They know what works for them. Their systems are in place and they've been in place and they iterate and, you know, they're always looking to make their go to market function sharper every step of the way. That's that basket, right? You're always going to have that when it pertains to everybody else, right? Like what the main struggle is.

Martin Gutierrez [00:10:12]:
I think you have shitty AI and shitty automation, and I really believe that's, that's the case, right? A lot of people with more and more AI and shitty automation that's coming about, people really want to speak to humans, right? They want to speak to humans. And I think, you know, we're using this AI and we're using this automation today, and a lot of recruiters are not. I don't think they're informing themselves as well. Or, you know, there's like that. And this is a whole different conversation. You could go down, trust me, but there's this nuance of having, you know, a role internally now with recruitment teams, sales teams in general, about an AI adopter, like somebody that looks at AI, looks at the tech and sees like is something even worth it within our own process. Kind of like a business operations person with that sales app. So there's a lot of AI and automation and spam cannons out there and I think that's driving a bigger gap in relationship building.

Martin Gutierrez [00:10:59]:
Right. You get an email nowadays. I know I do. And I try to answer as many emails as I can. Right. My team does it all day long. Like I want to get some good karma here, but the reality is you can't help but to think, is this email about, to me, like, was this part of like a spam email that I just received? And because of that I might not answer you, right? I might not answer you. And now you look at that type of email isn't those emails aren't working, they're not getting a response.

Martin Gutierrez [00:11:25]:
Well then on top of that, recruiters aren't multi threading their outreach. Right. They're not using multiple channels to reach out to me. So if they're staying consistent with that email, but they're not messaging me on LinkedIn or they're pitch slapping me on LinkedIn but they're not calling me, also trying to call me to get a hold of me, then it's going to become really difficult because I want to speak to a human at the end of the day, right. Like I want to be able to speak to a person. That's what we want. I think with more AI and automation that's coming out, teams are going to find success in reverting back to being human first and using AI and automation to upskill, you know, the, the salesmanship of the people in the seats or the skill. Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:03]:
I think one of the crazy things that are a few different crazy things that I've definitely been chatting with people is like, I almost feel like the goal or let me just take a step back. Like first of all, I think AI is costing a lot of recruiters money.

Martin Gutierrez [00:12:17]:
That's interesting. That's a hot, that's a hot take if I've ever heard one. Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:21]:
Well, and here's the thing. I get a new tool sent to me every single day. I think they're too busy chasing a tool rather than like figuring out a system that works for them. Like I just got done interviewing Rich Rosen and that guy's system is so duplicatable or like on a daily basis, it's Stupid. Like, this is exactly what he does. Xyz. And while many other recruiters are like, hey, what about, you know, let me go learn Clay, which I freaking love Clay, you know, let me go learn 8A N. Let me go learn make dot com.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:50]:
And by the time they've started doing all these things, they've forgot to actually recruit. I think a lot of, like, the companies, like, you know, like Source well, and many others that are already in the space, they're paying the AI engineers. Like, the AI is baked in for the average recruiter. The AI is already there for you.

Martin Gutierrez [00:13:07]:
Yeah. And you said, you mentioned around having systems that are very locked in and repeatable. Not a lot of people have that, right? Not a lot of people have that. And not a lot of people even know what their system is, right? Or that process that they're going to use to get that end result, to get it, what it is that they, you know, what they want, which originally is a conversation, right? Like, we need to start with a conversation and reverse engineer from there. But you're right, there's a lot of AI. There's a lot of AI and automation. That's a little bit too much. I've looked at Clay.

Martin Gutierrez [00:13:39]:
I'm a big, you know, AI guy. Like, I'm not going to try to knock on anything. But you have to understand, for you to understand and really know what to do with a tool like Clay, you have to spend time in it. Like, you really have to dive into it. It's not something that you could just pick up, you know, an hour during the day right after launch. Let me just mess around with Clay and try to be good at it. You know, I've tried it. And I've had to spend weekends, right, like sitting at home messing around with the filters, right? And getting things into it and out of it and sorting, you know, tables stuff is not easy to do.

Martin Gutierrez [00:14:10]:
And I think people get so caught up in it and trying to learn it and perfect it that they just give up on it. Right? They just give up on it. And that's where tech adoption starts to go down and down and down because it just becomes too difficult to even understand while, like you said, forgetting to do the recruiting side, while forgetting to do what got them to where they are in the first place.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:32]:
And me saying all this, I love AI. I'm hosting an AI summit later on this year that you guys should definitely register for. But I truly believe, and this is my perfect world, that the goal of AI is to take us back to the 1980s recruiter, where we actually just got to spend time on the relationships and not spend six hours researching another three hours with data. And then by the end of the day you realize you only got like 30, 45, maybe two hours of phone time. In the 1980s recruiter is the one that actually spent all that time like with relationship building. I think the AI is on the edge at the end of this year to be able to give us that.

Martin Gutierrez [00:15:15]:
Yeah, and I agree with you. And that's something that, you know, here at SourceWell we're empowering our customer base to do. Right? And it's automating some of those messages in the back end, automating some of Those emails, those LinkedIn messages in the background and having some phone calls baked into that sequence. Right. One of the biggest powers or I mean the biggest modules of SourceWell is our sequencing capabilities. That's where we win early and often, where we won and where we continue to pioneer. But it's that sequencing ability, so ability to have your outreach happen consistently every single time. And you're right, right.

Martin Gutierrez [00:15:48]:
Be going back to that 1980s recruiter mantra and salesperson. It's let these emails, like, how do we marry that 1980s with AI and automation? Well, let's let these emails LinkedIn messages, like, let these inmails, right? Let these happen in the background while I'm out going to lunch with a client, right. While I'm out going to meet a potential new client, right. While I'm working on these introductions and going, meeting people and taking people out. Like I can do that in a day and know that my emails are happening in the background. I know that, you know, my messages are going out when they should. Right. And they're personalized and they're consistent and they're layered with, you know, some AI in it that's going to allow those emails to go out, you know, in sequences and spaced out so that you know things like, without getting too technical and nerdy.

Martin Gutierrez [00:16:33]:
But you know, companies like Google and Outlook now have ways of knowing, hey, was this written by a human or by AI? And it bases it heavily around time spent writing up that email. So it's like Source will then comes in and make sure that your emails are being sent out, fanned out during that time, right? Three, four minute intervals, keep it human, keep it, you know, top of mind, keep it personalized so that when you are landing in inboxes, it's relevant, it's a relevant conversation. They're getting your emails and you can kick off conversations from there. And that's truly how relationships are going to get fostered and going to continue to get fostered in 2025 and beyond.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:07]:
So I want to dig in some data, but real quick, I know Randy Stats, who many of you guys loved his podcast episode.

Martin Gutierrez [00:17:14]:
Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:15]:
Where he had $500 left in the bank. And then at the end of the year he billed, I think it was like 800K. He's going to be talking at the finish of the year. Strong summit. One of the things that he said is like, source oil is my absolute favorite weapon because it let me actually focus on the people again. But I want to know data. You guys see the back end data and all this fun stuff. That's probably where I would have the most fun looking at stuff like, you know, you have all these sequences, like people have all these structures set up.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:46]:
When does a meeting with a new client on a business development side actually get set up? Like, how long in that process typically?

Martin Gutierrez [00:17:55]:
Great question. So there's a lot of, first of all, Randy Stats. Shout out to Randy. That's my guy. He's from Jersey. Local guy. I've actually reached out to him and had some really good conversations with him and, you know, met with his team a few times. Now.

Martin Gutierrez [00:18:08]:
He's the man, he's the goat. But as it pertains to right? When do conversations actually happen? There's actually a really curious stat that we have now, mind you, we've had over 50 million pieces of outreach that have been sent through our platform. All recruiters, right? Recruiters, staffing, no Salespeople, no tech, B2B. None of that. It's just been in the space, right? So we can really be those pioneers and give some of that feedback and the data on what's working and what isn't. And one of the most shocking pieces of data that we have is that conversations typically tend to start after that third follow up. Right? So what we have that stat is to be very specific, 71% of our conversations, what we're finding, happen after that third follow up. But most recruiters or salespeople, they give up after the second one, right? They send an email, they make a phone call, and it's never heard from them.

Martin Gutierrez [00:19:00]:
Onto the next, onto the next, onto the next. And, you know, you forget that original person that you were reaching out to. And I can't blame them, right? Can you blame them? You have calls to make, emails to send out, connection requests to make on LinkedIn, you know, send some inmails to my top clients. Prospects, you know, go visit new clients, go nurture some clients. Like if you're running a 360 desk, how are you supposed to do all of that? And you know, follow up with Jane DOE on your fifth, you know, follow up, third email, second message on LinkedIn and third phone call. How do you do that? Right. It's really hard. So can't really blame recruiters when they don't have a system that allows them to do that.

Martin Gutierrez [00:19:36]:
Right. Allows them to play free and you know, more aggressively. Right. Allows us salespeople to do what we want to do, what we know we want to do. We didn't join sales because we want to write emails. That's not what we were good at. We want to make money at the end of the day and we want to have the way that we make money most efficiently. At least the salespeople.

Martin Gutierrez [00:19:54]:
99% of salespeople is immigrated than I know. Picking up the phone and having conversations, that's the best way if you want a good laugh.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:00]:
I think it was like up until about 2018, 2019 was when I first started learning about automations, you know, basic stuff. I know it's been out before that. Literally my first 15 years in recruiting, I hated with a passion those people that were able to get everything into their spreadsheet on like, what follow up, what this, what that? You know, most recruiters are adhd. I'd like walk into my desk and I'd be like, wait, what did I do yesterday? Who am I supposed to follow up with? But I need to go reach out to 50 new people. Like, so I literally, by the time I got to Thursday, half the time because I didn't have systems or I sucked at keeping track of shit, I could never remember who I sent a message to on that Monday.

Martin Gutierrez [00:20:42]:
Right, right. I completely get you, man. It happens more often than you think.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:47]:
Like so out of curiosity, like, you know, I, I thank God for automation and a little bit of AI for me now, but like, are you still talking to recruiters that just don't have like automated follow ups happening?

Martin Gutierrez [00:21:00]:
Yeah, actually I speak to a client of ours, one of my selfish plug here, one of my AES that I promoted internally. He has a client that he's speaking to and he really, he has a lot of big vested interest not only in just keeping her happy and keeping her with the platform, with the company, but he has a really good relationship built with her. So I jump on calls all the time and you know, help where I can and be an assistance where I Can be whether it's campaign creation, emails, right? When should you make a phone call? When should you follow up? And one of the things that really surprises me is how she's gotten to where she is today and getting to the billions that she's at with no systems. And now when we talk to her and I show her the power of source, well, like every two, three weeks, it's a different conversation. When I see her, it's, oh, my God, I netted another meeting after a week, or, oh, I got to, you know, I spoke to this person. I've had a lot of success with this campaign. Can we edit some calls in here? Edit some emails in here? Because she now knows, man, like you just said, these people that I reached out to on Monday, Friday comes around, and it's not like they're forgotten or even Wednesday comes around and they're not forgotten, right? Friday comes around and I called them, LinkedIn connection requested with them, sent them an email that tied into my call and my connection request. And then I called them off the back of that email, right? And in that call, I left a voicemail that let them know they're going to get a email off the back of this, you know, answer my email if you have any questions or no abc.

Martin Gutierrez [00:22:22]:
And all of that is multi threading, multi channeling, staying, you know, within the vacuum. And that just sparks a lot more conversation, a lot more interest is that, show me, you know, me. And that intentionality behind trying to reach out to a candidate or a client. And that's really what's missing when you're operating within these Excel sheets. Now, let's not say that it's not impossible, right, to do everything manually and keep everything within Excel sheets. Sure, it could be done, but how efficient can you truly be, right? Like, it's costing you a lot of time, right? And time is the one thing that we can't get back, no matter what we try.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:54]:
I always sucked with the Excel spreadsheets. I know there's people that loved it out there, but I just.

Martin Gutierrez [00:22:58]:
Some people are really good at it. I don't know how. I genuinely don't know how I like it, because I think it's more of a control thing, Ben. Like, I really think it's a control thing. And I've spoke to a lot of people that have mentioned that. To me, it's, you know, the spreadsheet allows them to see everything, press everything. You're right there. You don't feel like you're losing anything.

Martin Gutierrez [00:23:15]:
And I totally get it. I agree. I mean, part of my onboarding with my team is I want them to create Excel sheets, spreadsheets and just have your companies in there. And for me it's, you need to first learn the art of following up, right? And not just from sequencing. Like you really need to understand the art of following up. Why we're following up, who are we following up with? Is it worth the follow up? Like that stuff needs to be learned first before then we can jump into sequences. Because once you create a sequence, you have to think of that follow up, why am I making this follow up? And that all needs to make sense, right? It all needs to tie. So that's where something like sourceboat can be scary, where, you know, if you're, if you're diving into a two feet first, but you don't have a system, you don't have a process, a lot of people can be intimidated, they can seem intimidated at first because of it, but there's so many safeguards built around it and whale GPT and different things that we implement within the platform that really allow you to take things, what I like to call the 90% rule.

Martin Gutierrez [00:24:09]:
I don't know if I mentioned this to you. AI gets you 90% of the way there. Our source. Well, AI gets you 90% of the Way there. You as the person, you as the recruiter, just get yourself the rest of the 10, right? Like you implement the 10, you humanize it, you add the bend touch to it.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:24]:
When it comes to like people using it, I know I speak to a lot of recruiters, they have like one or two people dabbling on the tech tools, playing around with it. But what kind of like success have you guys seen with like implementing this with a large team?

Martin Gutierrez [00:24:38]:
Yeah, so implementing something like SourceFlow with a large team, I mean large teams, small teams, the success is success. But I think the time savings is huge being implemented across large teams. You know, with large teams you tend to have more ops involved, you tend to have more enablement people involved. And with larger teams, there seems to be already some guidelines in place. Hey, you know, we send this email, we follow up with this LinkedIn message, we follow up with this phone call on this day. And that's really where it stops. It's not about if those are happening, it's just this is when it's supposed to happen. So I mean these are the messages that I want you to do, I want you to send out when that is supposed to happen.

Martin Gutierrez [00:25:20]:
So with those bigger teams, those that structures in place where sourceville comes in and where we're able to really boost these guys productivity is by putting those processes in a sequence. Right. Bringing it into a sequence that's going to happen every time in a set it and forget it approach. Where now you have 10, 15, like your friend, 15, 16 recruiters in office, as a leader, as a director, as you know, myself, I have eight SDRs on my team. You can see where everybody is every step of the way. And, and by reverse engineering your numbers you'll know, okay. Based on historical data, I know where this person is. You know, how many calls rep.

Martin Gutierrez [00:25:57]:
A needs to make to get a booked meeting, how many calls rep B needs to make to get a book meeting, how many emails need to go out for this meeting to come to fruition. Right. For us to even net that new meeting. So a lot of bigger teams have things already laid out, their structure already laid out. They just don't have a way to do it consistently every single time without missing a beat. That's where we, I see the biggest lift for our customers.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:20]:
What about like the smaller teams? Like we'll say sub 10.

Martin Gutierrez [00:26:24]:
Yeah, well some of those smaller teams say like solo billers, that is, that makes up the vast majority of our success stories. Right. That's actually where they're coming from. And they're solo billers, you know, they're more on lean firms who are wearing every single hat. They're doing the bd, they're doing the sourcing. Right. They're you know, managing client relationships. They just don't have time to manually do all that follow ups with everybody.

Martin Gutierrez [00:26:47]:
Right. Whenever you can, when you're supposed to do it. Right. Maybe you can get to it, but not in the timeframe that you're supposed to in a way that's going to allow you to drive that conversation. So one example that we actually had was this three person agency that was manually sending every single email and tracking outreach in a spreadsheet. Right. Like we talked and you know, once they started using source Whale. Right.

Martin Gutierrez [00:27:09]:
And really diving into building structured outreach for both not only the client side but also that candidate side and nurturing some of those clients without losing that personal feel. You know, within their first 90 days they booked two times the meetings and they reported placing an additional six candidates. You know, and that didn't come from the messages in per se. It happened because they weren't letting leads fall through the crack. That's my biggest takeaway. So not necessarily the message. It's because the candidate, the prospect they felt heard they were reached out to there was intentionality behind it. And when the prospect feels it, it's taking it back to what I mentioned earlier in this call with, you know, you have to be human nowadays.

Martin Gutierrez [00:27:54]:
You want to show intentionality behind your outreach. That's what's generating the conversations, that's what's generating the placed candidates. You know, just driving more intentionality and being more consistent with your follow ups.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:05]:
I tell recruiters now, like, unless you have a bunch of time after hours to focus on learning AI, focus on the companies that already have the AI built in because they're spending millions of dollars on engineers that we don't have. At least I don't have to build it for the moment. At the moment. I can't vibe code my way into everything.

Martin Gutierrez [00:28:23]:
Vive code. That's funny.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:25]:
I mean, that's what it is now. ChatGPT, some other sites, now do this, now do this.

Martin Gutierrez [00:28:33]:
Thank you. And please.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:34]:
Right, so like, what kind of, what kind of AI do you guys have like baked into your product?

Martin Gutierrez [00:28:38]:
Yeah, so I mean, we have some really hard hitting ones that have come out and you know, by the time that this podcast comes out, we're going to probably have learned of a few more that, that we have cooking in the background. So we built, you know, tools and we've built features like Content Coach, which helps teams refine their messaging really based on what's working in the industry. And, and we also have Whale GPT. Right. And what that's going to do is help you generate campaign content like that content that's, you know, still going to reflect your voice because of the way that you're able to prompt it. Ultimately you're going to get feedback from over 50 million pieces of outreach that have gone through our platform. So when it is, hey, I need to write an email, I really have no idea like how to get started or what email I should write. Make your way over to Whale GPT.

Martin Gutierrez [00:29:23]:
It gets you 90% of the way there. You bring it to 10.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:28]:
And can I create my campaigns for like everything from MPC to ed to candidate sourcing?

Martin Gutierrez [00:29:33]:
Yeah. And even to, you know, to nurture more of your clients, whatever you want to do. And, you know, we're able to work on both, you know, business development and your candidate side of the house. You know, a lot of these solo builders and these leaner teams, they're having to do that 360 aspect of recruiting. So it's, how do we do that? How do we allow, you know, recruiters to save time by bringing everything into one you know, center of work, the way that we see it. So, you know, we're able to give that functionality on both business development and candidates.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:00]:
Does the AI do anything else?

Martin Gutierrez [00:30:02]:
Yeah. So in regards to the AI, I mean, how much time do you really have? Right. One of the cool things that we actually just dropped, and by the time that this episode comes out, it'll probably be posted a lot on socials, is our inbox agent. What we know nowadays is that recruiters are sending over 15 CVs and resumes each week, and each one of those is potential revenue. Right? And every moment that a candidate is not in process is an opportunity for them to go somewhere else and speak to another agency and take that conversation elsewhere. What source Whale's inbox agent is going to do is pick up that conversation for you. So every conversation gets an outcome. Every email that comes in gets an outcome.

Martin Gutierrez [00:30:37]:
And it's really helping you get your email based on, you know, your historical lingo, how you like to write, how you've prompted in the past. It's getting all that upfront for you, ultimately, just creating what we keep talking about is being more human, right? And it's going to sound more human and it's going to allow your speed to market increase significantly. But outside of email inbox one, that really, at least for me, that sticks out the most that's been heaven sent is our data refresh. This is something that, not just me, I think we're all really excited about it. Essentially what it does is we know that recruiters, we have entire databases of candidates or clients that are sitting in there with information and data that can be passed through, right? They don't live in the state that they said that they were in before that you had in your CRM. Their phone number is not the same. Their last name has changed. They're not in the role that they weren't before.

Martin Gutierrez [00:31:26]:
Source World Data Refresh is going to go in and automatically update all that information for you. So every single step that you're making, every single email call, everything is placed tactfully, right, with some intent, and there's no wasted movement. You're not sending, you know, an email to somebody that's actually not an engineer anymore. They moved over to product and now they're like, why is this person emailing me? Right? Well, this recruiter, Clay, doesn't do their research, so maybe I won't speak to them. Right? And that's not even on the candidate side. That's both business development and candidates. So either you're Reaching out to new clients or candidates, it's imperative that you have the right information and it's always up to date and that's what data refresh is doing. And it's made some big strides for my SDR team as well and just making sure that it's always clean.

Martin Gutierrez [00:32:09]:
Every time that we do reach out, it's with that level of detail and we know that we're always going to be right when we reach out to somebody. That's to be one of the most important things, man.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:18]:
Wait, so that person that I have in my applicant tracking system from about nine years ago.

Martin Gutierrez [00:32:25]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:26]:
That has a TSSCI security clearance. But they were probably doing something like engineering wise, pre data modernization and pre, you know, aws, you guys can actually get that information refreshed.

Martin Gutierrez [00:32:42]:
So the licenses and the certificates, that's something that's being worked on. So licensing and certificates, that's worked on and that's on the roadmap. But as of today, I mean if they switch roles, they switch states, they don't live where they they were before. Right. We're moving away from remote now. People are sudden have to go back into office. That information, that's all going to get refreshed for you up to date. Absolutely.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:01]:
I mean I work in government contracting so like the guy could have been sitting in the same chair for the past eight, nine years and have worked for four different companies. So.

Martin Gutierrez [00:33:09]:
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And it's like how do you know which companies he's worked at? How many companies this person has worked at? You know, what was the time at these companies? All that is getting refreshed and put right back into your CRM. So it's not having to click through and jump through different platforms and different tabs. Actually, I think there was a study and I, I know there was a study. I read up on it. It came out from Harvard actually. And I believe it was 2024, 2023. That there's over 1200 different tabs.

Martin Gutierrez [00:33:33]:
You're going over 1200 different tabs and clicks when you're going to market as a recruiter. Right. So chopping the stat up. But as a recruiter you're clicking through 1200 different tabs every single day. That's absurd. Right? Like that's just absurd. That's not something that should be happening. That's not efficient and that's, that's a huge bottleneck that we're looking to clear up there.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:54]:
1200 tabs. It's kind of funny because, like, Riverside takes up so much data. But I had to close out one of my screens. I had 95 tabs open just to.

Martin Gutierrez [00:34:03]:
So I bet. And I bet you felt like you were like losing like a family member, like you were losing something. No, not the 95 tabs. I might add something on one of those that I need. I get it.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:13]:
And then I could never figure out what I actually needed when I close it out. So that's a whole nother story.

Martin Gutierrez [00:34:18]:
And then you open the wrong tab and why was I on this tab in the first place? And it was something from the three days ago. And you're like, oh, my God, I forgot to do that. Yeah, yeah. All right.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:26]:
I want to know, like, so when you're looking at these recruiters and just like we're switching it up a little bit, like you're having all these conversations, you guys are seeing all this data. Are you seeing like, like some sort of like, thread in some of these recruiters that are just absolutely crushing it, no matter what the market conditions are. And what do you guys see behind the scenes with these people or with these teams?

Martin Gutierrez [00:34:50]:
Yeah, it's. They're keeping a phone first approach, right? So they're just staying on top of the phones. You know, that's a story as old as time, right? Just staying heavy on the phones and not having that phone reluctancy, that's going to help you big time. That's going to just generate the most conversations. But overall, teams that are not afraid to iterate, teams that are not okay with just how things have been going with the status quo, team that are always looking to do more, implement more, look at some new solutions. But I say that. And it's also important to a lot of these people that we have spoken to that we're seeing the success like you're asking. It's a lot of them have somebody that owns that process, right? And it starts from the top.

Martin Gutierrez [00:35:30]:
It could start from ownership to a VP or a C suite. They have somebody that is really dialed in and making sure that their processes and their systems are aligned and that, you know that the tools that they're bringing in can be optimal for them. That is a big differentiator that we're seeing right now. It's the intentionality with which people are actually looking at, you know, getting better. Right. Staying on the phones. How can I have more conversations checking against different data providers? Right? AI is out there now. AI is out there and data is out there.

Martin Gutierrez [00:35:58]:
Data is extremely expensive. So it's like there's really no reason to buy something or invest in something without knowing the full scope of it and feeling extremely comfortable with it before buying it. Those teams have somebody that owns that part of the process that genuinely owns it and isn't just doing it for 30 minutes a day or, you know, an hour a week. When they get a cold call and they take a demo. Right. They, they come with intent.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:24]:
Do you also see behind the scenes, like a difference in the amount of like, work ethic?

Martin Gutierrez [00:36:29]:
I think that ties in with the phone first approach. Okay. I think those, those people have that desire to be great. I think people that have a desire to be great are going to constantly look for ways to get better to do what they're currently doing, but better. It's never good enough. Right. It's, yeah, I'm doing a really good job at this, but how do I take that to the next step? That's what I'm seeing there and I'm seeing a lot of that. They come into demos and they know this is the type of AI that we need.

Martin Gutierrez [00:36:54]:
These are the conversations that we've had. These are the other vendors that I've spoken to. Like, those are the people, they're very. They own their own, their own success just as well as they own their own failure. Those are those teams that are seeing some massive Success today in 2025. And what I believe is going to be going forward.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:11]:
Awesome. I know we covered a lot. You know, definitely talking about like AI, talking about like the systems that are needed to set you up for success and many recruiters out there that don't have systems, which, you know, for many years I didn't have any and I can always work on mine. Like, we covered a lot of, like what you guys can do. Before we jump over to the quick fire questions, is there anything else that.

Martin Gutierrez [00:37:35]:
You want to go deeper on within source? I mean, there's so many, there's so many things that I can dive into and different parts of the platform and everything. Right. But I think it's important for. And I guess this is one of those takeaways that I want our customers or our listeners to go away with. It's know the type of AI that you're looking for. Right. It's AI is not AI is not AI. Right.

Martin Gutierrez [00:37:55]:
It's not like AI is AI is AI. No, like you have to know what you want. You have to be intentional about what it is that you want. Because a lot of conversations go the wrong way with us. They go to the side because it's like they come in with this, hey, I'm just looking at AI, I'm looking at all types of AI and they're looking at, you know, lead generation and data, but they're also looking at sequencing. Right. There are platforms like Shameless, Plug Here, sourceware that does all that in one fell swoop. But it's genuinely knowing what is the AI that you want for your business.

Martin Gutierrez [00:38:25]:
I think that's going to be the most important.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:28]:
That is true. Figure out the hole that needs to be plugged.

Martin Gutierrez [00:38:30]:
Right, right, right, right. Like it's, yeah, yeah, you're 100% right. I don't think much more needs to be said behind that. Like you're, you're spot on.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:37]:
Well, so jumping over to the quick fire questions and they don't need to be quick answers, but you talk to a lot of recruiters like, you know, a combination of like, you know, high reasy and now source whale and let's just say this, like, you know, you're talking to a new prospect, but they're also a brand new recruiter and they just like, you know, during the conversation they're like, you know what, I'm new in recruiting. You've talked to a lot of people. Based on what you have seen, what do you think would be advice that you can give me to set me up for success in this career?

Martin Gutierrez [00:39:08]:
That's a really good question and I feel strong about answering this because I interview a lot of recruiters for my SCR roles that I have. Right. I interview a lot of recruiters because I know how hard and taxing their job can be. And like I always say, if you can manually do the follow ups that you're doing in recruitment, like let me just put you on source well and get you on the phones and you'll be flying. Right? So for me, the advice that I get and I usually ask these guys that I'm recruiting and I'm interviewing, I usually ask them like, you know, how you got to where you are and the answer, the overarching answer, not only in recruiting, but I hear this in sales, you know, alike is go find that top producer. And I know it's cliche and everybody says it, so I'm sorry, but go find that top producer, fail forward, figure out what it is that this person is doing, right? Take away from them the things that you find valuable that are striking the most. Conversations, meetings, and then don't try to replicate them. I think that's where a lot of people go wrong is they try to replicate that, imitate them, right.

Martin Gutierrez [00:40:05]:
In your own way. Establish what this person is really good at. Like, what are they doing that's winning so much for them and how can I replicate that in my own way? Right. I don't want to be them. I don't want to do exactly how they do because that's not my voice. Right. A lot of people struggle with that. They're not talking with their internal voice.

Martin Gutierrez [00:40:20]:
Their own process doesn't make sense to them. So you have to understand it's not just about how they're doing to go. They make, you know, 80 phone calls a day. I'm just going to make 84 calls a day. No, what are those 80 phone calls to who are they to who is he placing them to? When are those calls getting made? Right. It's going a step deeper and understanding the why behind how this person goes to market and does their job.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:42]:
Well, let's see the same question, but for somebody that's been around the block, you know, I. E. Me like two decades, you know, they hit you up and like. But you're having a ton of conversations. Like, what advice would you give for me?

Martin Gutierrez [00:40:53]:
Don't think that you have it all figured out, right? With AI and automation that's coming out. Stick with the basics. Go back to the basics, right? Do what you know works for you, but streamline it. Put it in a way that, you know, every single day. I know a lot of people like yourselves, you do really good on the phone, right? Like a lot of people like you, you want to get people on the phone, you want to get people, you want to have conversations. Figure out how we can streamline the conversations and all the other messages that we're having so we can get more face to face with our clients. Because going into 2026 and, you know, the rest of the year of 25, like we mentioned earlier, it's about relationship building and it's going back to that 1980s type recruiter. So it's, how can I do more, More in the background while I'm working my relationships? Like, the background work is imperative going into 2026.

Martin Gutierrez [00:41:37]:
How can I use AI and automation for that while I continue to work these relationships, shake hands, kiss babies, meet people, and, you know, become that person that is known in the space.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:47]:
Well, do you have a favorite tech tool?

Martin Gutierrez [00:41:50]:
Is there a wrong answer if I say source? Well, like, I mean, it gives me my phone number, it gives me cell phones to the decision makers I need to call. It sequences my outreach, right? Like, it's pretty simple. If I need my SDRs to. To make a campaign, I can create it in a matter of 30 seconds. I can create it for them. Go here. Sequence is done. Get after it.

Martin Gutierrez [00:42:14]:
You don't have to worry about writing. I know it's going to be great because I, I made it so like, I have that sense of control over the situation. The phone numbers that we're able to give, emails that we're able to give. I mean, I think the phone numbers. The best part is that we have a lot of vendors that plug into our platform and do the waterfall method to ensure that the numbers that we're currently dialing are always going to be the most likely to engage. We're going to give you nothing but really good, strong phone numbers there. So that to me is. It would be really hard for me to take, you know, go to another company and not bring sourcewell with me.

Martin Gutierrez [00:42:44]:
Right. Like, I leave and I go to another tech company. Source. Well, is coming with me. There's just. There's just really no way that I can do that. That without it. Point blank, really end of story.

Martin Gutierrez [00:42:53]:
And I love tech. Like, we pay for Zoom Info here internally. I have Zoom Info. My VP comes from Zoom Info. Right. We're not against it. I love it. But you know, when it comes to everything that it's allowed to do that, the capabilities that it gives my team and myself, from a management perspective.

Martin Gutierrez [00:43:08]:
Yeah. I can't, I can't do it without Source. Like, I. I'll be honest with you.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:13]:
You mentioned Waterfall Enrichment. That's like the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Martin Gutierrez [00:43:18]:
Yeah. Don't ask me to go too into detail with it. Please don't do that to me. But y. I don't talk to. I don't talk to our devs team because my IQ drops every time I have conversations with them. This is way too smart for me. So it's like, I think our sales team would just say, we're not speaking to those guys.

Martin Gutierrez [00:43:33]:
They're way too smart. Like, I don't want to feel dumb after my conversation. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:37]:
And here's the thing, like, at that a year ago, I was like, waterfall Enrichment's the greatest thing. You know, everybody has Waterfall enrichment baked into their system, which is great. Saves you time on just like having 17 different places to look up and for location.

Martin Gutierrez [00:43:49]:
Yeah. And keep it all linear in one single location and one source makes life 10 times easier.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:55]:
And you probably cancel some of the service providers I'm paying for them.

Martin Gutierrez [00:44:00]:
Yeah. How many do we pay for that? We don't even know about outside of work. Right. Like, outside of the service. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:05]:
Well, anyways, like, do you have a favorite book that's had a huge impact on your career?

Martin Gutierrez [00:44:10]:
Yeah. Radical candor. Kim Scott. She's really, really, really good. That helped me early on in my career. That book was. That book was massive. Just how to speak to people, how to be very direct.

Martin Gutierrez [00:44:21]:
I think a lot of managers earlier in their career, they get stuck with this. The hiccups of wanting to be nice and cuddly and, you know, make people feel nice and warm and fuzzy and although that's still true, and I think the people on my team will tell you, like, I tend to coddle them, it still comes with that taste of directness. Right. Kim, in her book, she writes about, you know, this anecdote where somebody told her that she sucked when she was speaking. Like, she just sounded like she didn't know what she was saying. And I reflect to that. I reflect on that a lot. And the reason is a lot of the conversations that I've had with the guys on my team, guys and girls on my team, the best conversations that I've had is when I'm just radically candid with people.

Martin Gutierrez [00:44:59]:
I just say it how it is and in a positive way. And it's been. It's been a true game changer for me.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:05]:
If you get the chance to, like go back in time and have a conversation with yourself, we'll say maybe like the. The first month that you were at Source Whale, based on everything that you know now. And you guys, I know sourcewell has grown a ton since then. Would you actually go back and tell.

Martin Gutierrez [00:45:22]:
Yourself that's crazy, man, Because I just had this conversation the other day with one of the leads on my team and we talked about that. We were just having some end of day convos and we said like, how different life would be or how different we would come into work or how much better, right? Knowing what we know now, how much differently we would do things or what we would do different. And I think for me, that's a great question. It's something that I would do differently coming into Source Whale. Get more in person events, get to more in person events earlier in the game right there. And I say that because in tech, that's not a thing, right? Like, in tech, what I mean is building relationships the way that we do in recruitment is not the same, right? In recruitment, everybody knows each other. I know that agency owner there. Like, everybody speaks with each other.

Martin Gutierrez [00:46:06]:
There's that general understanding in tech, that's not it. Like we sell you onto the next our customer success team, which is really good. They take over from here and you know, not just us, but that's just like the general consensus in tech. I think for myself we're selling to recruiters. Let's get into, into their world. Let's be like them. Like let's be those people that we don't hide, we don't sell and run. Like let's be forefront with them.

Martin Gutierrez [00:46:28]:
So for me I would have started doing more things like this, webinars getting in person, you know, going to dinners earlier in our career, I definitely would have done that.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:37]:
Good advice in person.

Martin Gutierrez [00:46:39]:
Oh yeah. Like yeah, we're fully remote too so.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:43]:
Well here's a fun question. You know it sounds like you guys also like do a lot of like coaching recruiters on like how to set up their sequences, how to like you know, write the perfect BD message, how to use the AI. Like you had one of your team members completely helping that other client with their work. I know you get a lot of questions on tech. You get a lot of questions on like what works in business development. Is there a question that you wish recruiters would actually ask you?

Martin Gutierrez [00:47:11]:
Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. How to get to their KPIs that they know will net them a new meeting. Right. So how many calls? How can I make this so that I'm making on average on a day to day basis, 60 to 70 phone calls. Because I know that. Plus 15 emails and five connection requests. That type of formula nets me a meeting.

Martin Gutierrez [00:47:31]:
How can I set this in a sequence manner that never gets asked? It's always just a call I dial, I send an email. Like I don't know what to do off the back of that. Like what should I do? When should I do it? I would like for recruiters to have more of that control and understanding of what they do and why they do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:48]:
Well, here's a question on that and you might not know the exact number, but how many percentage wise of recruiters do you think actually know their metrics or like their percentages of what converts?

Martin Gutierrez [00:47:59]:
I mean I'm interviewing hundreds of recruiters I'm hiring for STRs. I'm hundreds of recruiters genuinely. I would say about 30% know what they need to do every single day for X to happen. Or about 30 to 30, maybe 40%. The others are just marching to the beat of the drum. It just kind of happens how it happens and however it falls, they just know they have to Make X amount of calls to get this meeting. Like, they know that they have meetings that they have to, you know, they have to send CVS in and get two new rules on and all these things. But it's like, what is everything that comprises what is everything that needs to happen for those results to come to fruition? Right.

Martin Gutierrez [00:48:37]:
And a lot of them don't know the why behind it, and a lot.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:40]:
Of those that don't know the why. Like, how many years have they been recruiting?

Martin Gutierrez [00:48:43]:
A bunch, Three, four years. On average, about three, four years. It's just hitting the road.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:49]:
The ones that actually know that can tell you their numbers, their KPIs and that kind of stuff and their understanding of the process. Is there anything different with that group of recruiters?

Martin Gutierrez [00:48:59]:
I interview them and I think to myself, this person is going to come in and be a headache in six months. They're going to want to get promoted. They're going to be really good. They're going to be really, really good, like, and the best possible headache. And the reason I say that is because they have an internal locus of control. It's not external, so it's not, you know, oh, like, I've made calls. Nobody's picking up. Or my territory or the space or the role that I'm filling or the agency that I'm working with.

Martin Gutierrez [00:49:24]:
No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to fill. I'm going to do this. I'm going to make my calls. Like, at the end of the day, I'm going to hit my number. It's just a matter of I'm going to do it here or another company. Company, like you choose like that. They just know, they're very confident.

Martin Gutierrez [00:49:36]:
There's just this unwavering confidence in those recruiters because of that. Like, those are Type A people that know what needs to be done every step of the way.

Benjamin Mena [00:49:46]:
Well, we've covered a lot today and like, you know, unpack everything from, like, you know, what Source World does to AI to like, the future. Like, we didn't really dive into the future of recruiting, but I feel like we can have a whole nother conversation on that.

Martin Gutierrez [00:50:00]:
The future of recruiting. Yeah. We have another, another hour set up. Let's get that going.

Benjamin Mena [00:50:05]:
Like, I'm completely excited about it because the world's changing. But, you know, the biggest thing today was just look at the systems that you have in place. It's worth like maybe like boxing out a morning this week after listening to this episode. You know, what kind of systems do I have in place how am I getting to my numbers? How am I tracking my numbers? How am I setting myself up for success? And how can I have a duplicatable process where I come in? I can get the work done. I have some systems running behind the scenes so I can go spend time on the relationships with the candidates and the clients and where we can impact people's lives. So, Martin, I'm excited that you came here today. Two quick questions before I let you go. If somebody wants to follow you, like, how do they go about doing that?

Martin Gutierrez [00:50:46]:
Oh, they can reach me on LinkedIn. You know, we'll have that here tagged below. My name is Martin Gutierrez. Feel free to message me. I answer almost 90% of messages that I get, so I'll do my best to get a hold and respond back to you. I usually always do, but yeah, LinkedIn would be the best way to do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:02]:
And before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Martin Gutierrez [00:51:06]:
Have a system, Understand your numbers, understand your numbers. It's not just what I need to do, it's the why I need to do it. Intentional follow ups, intentional calls, intentional work. Right? Understand the why behind your outreach. It's not always just, I need to make 80 phone calls because that's what it is now. It's, why do I need to make 80 phone calls? Where are they placed? How are they placed? Like, you need to have systems and structure to your day. That, to me is the biggest thing. I don't know how you can do sales in 2025 and beyond and not have systems and structure that are going to allow you to do more with less and be more present with, you know, your clients.

Martin Gutierrez [00:51:44]:
Your customers, and, you know, potential clients as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:48]:
Awesome. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing today and for the listeners out there, I want you to absolutely crush it. Two things before I let you go. Hop in the show Notes. Make sure you're registered for the AI Recruiting Summit. Make sure you're registered for finish the year strong. And I got something cooking for you guys, so can't wait to share. All right, see you guys later.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:07]:
Attention, recruiters. Source Whale has exciting news. Starting July 30th, you can try two powerful new AI tools for free. Inbox Agent is like an assistant in your inbox drafting replies in your voice and automating follow ups. Notetaker joins your calls, transcribes everything, and instantly creates AI powered summaries that are automatically logged into your CRM. That means Source Whale handles the busy work while you focus on placements. Don't wait. Head to source whale.com free trial to start your free trial.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:36]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit, subscribe and leave a rating.