The LinkedIn Playbook Driving Millions in Inbound Business for Recruiters — Thought Leadership Secrets with Kelli Schutrop

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast.

Kelli Schutrop [00:00:03]:
When I stepped into the role of salesperson, I was so hesitant to have the word sales in my title because I did not want people to think that I was just trying to get money out of them. Like that made me feel inside. I think more people will get comfortable with showing up as their personal brand, but I think AI is going to try to automate that. What I mean by that is I think people are going to try to shortcut it. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:49]:
I am super excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. I have a returning guest and when I talk about returning guests, this is. This person was a guest winner. Nobody was actually listening to the podcast. I was the probably one of the only people listening to my own episodes back then. But I'm excited about this because, like, the game has absolutely changed since we had the conversation. The LinkedIn leadership visibility game can really make a difference in your recruiting desk. Perfect examples.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:16]:
We've had Bren Orsuga as a guest at the summits and guests on the podcast. He's million, $2 million desk. All inbound from being a leader in a space. I'm sure you guys know Mike Williams, part of the Pinnacle society, chatting with him at the pinnacle meeting. 40 to 60% of his businesses is inbound from LinkedIn from being a thought leader. On top of that, Amy Volas, who's just absolutely crushing it in showing up on LinkedIn where business comes to her. And like I always use this, like, perfect example that's outside of the recruiting space. You could probably want to look this guy up.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:48]:
His name is Adam Robinson. He runs a SaaS product and just because of LinkedIn thought leadership, and he spends like 25 hours a week on LinkedIn, it has pulled eight figures into his business. You can change the game by being the authority in this space. You're already the authority out there and just share it. So that's why I'm so excited to have Kelly returning, because the game has changed. So real quick, Kelly, 30 seconds, share a little bit about yourself before we dive in.

Kelli Schutrop [00:02:15]:
Fantastic. Well, thanks for having me back, Benjamin. My name is Kelly Shoetrup. If I haven't met you. Hello. Great to meet you all listening. My background is about 15 years focused on marketing and sales in and around the staffing industry. So the first half of my career.

Kelli Schutrop [00:02:29]:
I managed marketing in house for executive search and consulting firms and then I pivoted into consultative selling, specifically selling digital marketing services into the staffing industry. Partnered with over 150 staffing companies across the country during that phase of my career and was able to share a lot of cool insights which we will dive into here shortly. And following that chapter of my career, well, I should say during that chapter of my career I was asked to create a few different LinkedIn learning courses which opened up some cool opportunities for me to expand my horizon. I stepped into a digital learning consultancy company and then the most recent chapter, about a year and a half ago, I launched my own brand called Thoughtful Resound which does sales and marketing fractional leadership consulting very heavily through the lens of how to become an expert visible leader so that you can create opportunities that come inbound to you. And so now I work with a select few retainer clients at a time and, and do project work like marketing strategies, workshops and trainings around expert visibility, you know, customized sales programs, things like that. So having a ton of fun, all in the B2B, primarily in the B2B professional service space and as you can imagine, very, very heavily in our beloved staffing industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:41]:
Well, I think it was like maybe like episode six or episode seven, the deep dive on your entire background. So if you want to go the ins and outs of that, go back and check out that episode. You're going to have to scroll down for a bit, but it is definitely worth going back to. I want to kind of like fast forward a little bit. You know, you've had the opportunity to walk away many times from the recruiting space, from the staffing space, from the search space. Why do you keep on coming back?

Kelli Schutrop [00:04:07]:
Oh, good question. There is something to the energy and the people in our industry that I have not experienced in any other space. There's a really cool camaraderie where even though you end up with direct head to head competition everywhere you look, right? Like you even talk about like the Pinnacle Society, that crew is an excellent example of like there's a ton of competitors in there and they just rally to support each other and give insights and give tips. And I think that there's something really special about our space where it's made up primarily of salespeople at the end of the day. So people who are excited to get out there and build their business help other people, but they're just, they're really, it's a good crew of people, right? So I think that's what Keeps drawing me back. And then on top of that, as someone who has a strong background in marketing and selling, I have such an appreciation for the B2B professional service space because it's not something that you can tangibly just sell. Right? Like, nobody in the staffing space has a widget that never moves and you could sell it. Like, both sides of your sales equation, technically a recruiting equation as well, are moving at all times.

Kelli Schutrop [00:05:12]:
Right? Your client could change their mind, your candidate could change their mind. So there's a. There's a nimbleness and a resilience that you have to have in this industry. And I just, I have a heart for helping folks here because we got tough work, but also really meaningful work. And so I've been able to support a lot of people in that space.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:30]:
So you've done a lot in the marketing of, like, all sorts of parts of the executive search and the staffing industry. Why did you kind of like come to the realization that, like, thought leadership and expert visibility was one of the biggest game changers?

Kelli Schutrop [00:05:46]:
You know, when I stepped into the role of salesperson, I was so hesitant to have the word sales in my title because I did not want people to think that I was just trying to get money out of them. Like, that made me feel, ugh, inside. And so as I stepped from marketing into sales, I wanted to approach it differently. I didn't want to be seen as a commodity. I didn't want to just do outbound cold calling. I was establishing Parka, which now has since shifted, shifted in there more in the tech stack integration space with Salesforce and Bullhorn. And it's not a traditional digital marketing agency at all anymore. But when, when we were launching, nobody knew that name.

Kelli Schutrop [00:06:25]:
There was already long time tenure with other digital agencies in our industry. And I just had this gut feeling that if I showed up and added value to the audience that I wanted to attract conversations with, like if I showed them on camera, through conference speaking, just anywhere that they were spending time, if I showed them the types of things that they were wrestling with and gave them a way to solve those problems when they had a need, they would probably come see me. And so it was a hypothesis, in part strategic, in part, because I really didn't want a cold call. But what I found is that it actually paid out really, really well. Just in dividends, like from a revenue standpoint, millions, millions of dollars generated for the organization. But from a soul standpoint, it's incredible. I've gotten to know so many people all across the country Actually, globally in our industry. Right.

Kelli Schutrop [00:07:17]:
There's a big presence in the uk, where I have never met them in real life, but I've got a great connection with them because I'm constantly putting content out or I'm supporting what they're doing. And the reality is, what it did for me was not only generate revenue, but it elevated the industry's knowledge of what they needed to be doing when they were thinking about digital marketing and how to approach that. And so for me, when I started my company, the big realization was, wow, not every organization approaches sales this way. And it is harder when you don't like. It is so much easier to have companies attracted to you to say, I have a need. And I know that you specialize in this space. You're at least on the short list. Right.

Kelli Schutrop [00:07:59]:
It's not a guarantee, no matter what. Like, you still have to sell me and it still has to be the right fit. But I already look to you as a trusted expert. So we're gonna have a conversation. And not every company was approaching it that way. So I saw an opportunity for me to lean heavily into that because it is a game changer. Cause it makes your job as a recruiter, as a salesperson, easier and not as uphill, but it also creates a lot of revenue opportunity for your organization.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:21]:
Okay, so. And let me just take a few steps back that you. You learned this lesson for you. You ran the trial mvp. It works for you. You know, we're in the recruiting industry. I would say maybe old school. Like, typically, our sales tactics are a good decade behind the rest of the world.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:37]:
Why would it work in the recruiting space? That kind of thought leadership and some of the things that you're doing.

Kelli Schutrop [00:08:47]:
In our staffing industry, it is really easy to be viewed as a commodity. Right. It's easy for a client to say, oh, they're in IT staffing. I know other people in IT staffing. It's all the same. Or for a candidate to think, I can find the right role I need, maybe I'm going to use a recruiter. I could use any recruiter. And so I think that there's a lot of that perception that needs to be overcome.

Kelli Schutrop [00:09:13]:
And we're living in a world where AI is so prevalent and so helpful in so many ways, but it's also creating a lot of noise in people's inboxes and just everywhere. Right. Because now everybody can create all the content they want with a click of a button 30 seconds later. And so I think by being in the staffing and Recruiting, recruiting, even executive retained recruiting industry, your face has to be in front of your right audience. It's no longer enough for just the company brand to be strong because people are viewing the company brands as like, okay, I mean, yes, we know you do this, but people do like working with people they like. And what I've heard consistently over the years from really strong people in our space is once I'm in a conversation, it's no problem. I will get the client right, I will be able to find the right talent. It's the more at bats and finding more at bats.

Kelli Schutrop [00:10:08]:
And depending on when you listen to this, the market might be in a different spot. But where the market is right now, there's a lot changing the political landscape that has people kind of freezing on buying decisions. And so that impacts how fast people move and how risky. They're willing to like, you know, dive forward with a new recruiting partner. And so by being human to your buyer, essentially, it's harder for them to ghost you, it's harder for them to ignore you. It's harder for them just to say no. Like, you just think about a topic, right, like finances or something that maybe you aren't the foremost expert on. Like, we go to different sources for expertise.

Kelli Schutrop [00:10:46]:
If you had a question about something right now on the topic of submitting your taxes, who would you go to? Either you have someone in mind or you're panicking because you're like, I don't know who I should talk to, but I know I need someone. Is that what you're going to say, Benjamin?

Benjamin Mena [00:10:58]:
I was going to say Chat GPT. Deep research, Please help me.

Kelli Schutrop [00:11:01]:
Sure, yeah. Or chat GPT. But there are so many areas in life that each of us feels a lot more comfortable and secure if we have a go to person. And even if they're not the person to implement or to get hired by us to do the thing, we know they're going to point us in a better direction. And so that's why I double down on this concept of thought leadership and expert visibility for the staffing space. Because if you can get your ideal clients and candidates right, if you're thinking about that side, but I know we talk a lot about the sales side. If you can get them to think of you as the person they need to go to, whether they're going to hire you or you're going to point them in the right direction, that's a beautiful thing. And you can't do that just by company level branding.

Kelli Schutrop [00:11:39]:
You have to show up day to day in front of them and where they're at.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:43]:
So I want to take a person that you probably know really well and we're going to backtrack like about them. Amy, do you think Amy would be a good example?

Kelli Schutrop [00:11:52]:
Yeah, Amy Wallace would be a great example.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:54]:
Okay, so we're going to, we're going to kind of like backtrack like towards the beginning of her, since you know her really well. So what kind of stuff is Amy doing now to create that expert visibility to bring in clients and candidates?

Kelli Schutrop [00:12:09]:
Yeah, so these are my words, not Amy's words, but definitely go follow her. She's fantastic. Amy does a good job of what I would call selling without selling. So she creates content about scenarios that she is experiencing while talking to clients and prospects. That outlines for other clients and prospects what they should be doing and what they should not be doing. So tangibly what this looks like is she hops on camera. And by the way, right now LinkedIn's algorithm is really favoring vertical videos that are under 60 seconds. So grab your cell phone, prop it up, get awkward on camera.

Kelli Schutrop [00:12:44]:
She does a great job of jumping on. Literally they're short and sometimes they're two or three minutes because there's more thoughts to share there. And I'll just specify her space is helping to hire the first head of sales for organizations as they're ramping up. And she's got other niches throughout that honed in space. But she is oftentimes talking to a founder who has led sales themselves and is now gung ho to bring in the first salesperson. And that can go wrong for so many reasons. And so she does a great job by shedding light on kind of slowing them down when they need to slow down, or telling them how to lean into finding the right talent or telling them like, these are the questions you actually should be asking yourself. Otherwise you're going to find out that, that the person you hired for X amount of dollars isn't going to work out nine months down the road that you probably didn't even need to hire yet because you don't have your, your product market fit in your market.

Kelli Schutrop [00:13:34]:
Right. So she's just doing a great job showing up day to day. The other thing that I would say she does a phenomenal job on is getting involved with her people on LinkedIn, the people who I would consider to be referral partners to her. So folks who sell into a similar space but are non competitive. So just think about like if you were to co host a webinar with someone who would that be? Right? Like, who else might you do something with that's not a direct competitor? She's buddies with them. You can tell she's a very authentic person. It's not because she's thinking, oh, if I comment on this person's post, it will refer me business. Like, they've become friends.

Kelli Schutrop [00:14:11]:
And we all have people like this in the industry. Right? Like Benjamin, you're one of them. Like, if you post something that I'm excited about, you better believe I'm going to comment on that and rally behind you. Right. And so she's done a really good job of creating a network that she shows up with day to day and comments on their content as there's things that are relevant. And I would imagine she's doing the same with her prospects and with her clients too, and supporting them. Because there's something really beautiful about this world of LinkedIn where everyone, not just our industry, is being told, you need to show up more, you need to get more visible. Even your clients, everyone who's listening to this, your clients are probably being told that by their marketers, they're seeing some of their competitive peers out in the market getting more visible and they're feeling that, like, tug of, like, ah, I really should get on there.

Kelli Schutrop [00:14:56]:
So when they post, if you comment thoughtfully, authentically, and yours is one of the only ones that's not an employee of theirs, do you think it's going to stand out? So when you go to do an outbound message to them on LinkedIn, or in an email or in a phone call, is your name maybe gonna ring a bell just a little bit more if you've left a few comments on their posts than someone who has never made a connection with them? Yes. So, anyway, I digress. Amy does a really nice job in this space for those reasons.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:23]:
Okay, so that's what she's doing now. You've worked with her, so, like, you probably know, like, the ins and outs of what she's tried before. So this is her comfort level. This is what she's gotten to now. This is what's being super successful. What was she doing? Who will say, prior to this, was she on LinkedIn? Like, did she need some structure? Did she need some coaching? Was she afraid to post?

Kelli Schutrop [00:15:46]:
That's a great question. I'm actually going to pivot to a different individual to give this example, because I met Amy not in a client relationship, so I haven't partnered with her myself to develop her thought leadership. When I came to know her, it was just organic through LinkedIn and she was already crushing it. I will say to everyone listening, I have hired her as a consultant to just have conversations about career moves that I was considering in the past. So that is how I got to know her and got to kind of like see some of the secret sauce of how she's so good at what she's good at. And then I have been following her and staying connected to her and she's fantastic. But I'll give you another example of an individual who I've seen from there before to their. Now there's an individual who was not very present on LinkedIn other than, you know, we'll call it like the headhunting side of recruiting, right? Of the full desk, like going out and finding the right talent.

Kelli Schutrop [00:16:35]:
But there wasn't a lot of visibility day to day. One of the things I challenged her with is to get on camera and share stories about what she was experiencing without giving away her clients names. Right? But just share these insights, right? If you're seeing clients miss out on the right candidates because they're taking too much time in the offer process, talk about it, right? Like the things that are no brainers to you are probably things they need to hear more frequently. And so she has done a phenomenal job of getting on camera from time to time, posting content, getting involved in industry associations, posting content about that. But she's also doing a great job of connecting with people on LinkedIn and letting them just kind of sit for a couple of weeks and see her content. And now when she reaches out to them, it isn't a sales pitch, it is, hey, it's been great to be connected. Her words are different, but essentially like, I'm always happy to contribute to whatever you're doing and talk shop. If you wanna set up a conversation, let's do that.

Kelli Schutrop [00:17:30]:
And she's getting a lot of yeses of prospective clients that never knew her before. But because they're seeing what she's doing and what she's posting when she asks, and they know that she specializes in the space that they would need talent, they're saying yes to the networking conversation. And that's exactly what I experienced as well. When I would connect with people in the staffing industry, more often than not I would have people reach out before I even got a chance to reach out to them because they saw my profile and they're like, oh, she gets this space. I'm curious about this space. I'm going to reach out and talk.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:01]:
To her and she's able to Flip those networking conversations into clients she has.

Kelli Schutrop [00:18:06]:
Yes. And this is even, like, relatively new. This isn't something that she's been doing for two years. This is something that she's been doing for the last few months. And those conversations, yes, she has gotten signed contracts out of them and is working searches on them right now, which is exciting.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:19]:
What was the biggest thing that she felt that she had to overcome?

Kelli Schutrop [00:18:24]:
I think for her, and I hear this commonly for other people, it's just that scary factor of getting on camera, doing that uncomfortable bit of like, okay, it's not just a post that's content that I can think about for a while or run it through ChatGPT and copy and paste. You have to get a little vulnerable. You have to decide, who do I want to be when I jump on camera? What's my background? What am I going to say? Do people care? And I think that's the biggest challenge that she had was like, why would people want to hear this? But then it's really proven out for her of like, okay, all right, people do want to hear this. It is beneficial. And the biggest thing that I could give advice to someone is if you are in a conversation with someone and you kind of see that, like, internal light bulb moment for them. This is like you're talking to a prospect or a current client and they're like, oh, yeah, we got to be thinking about that. If you're seeing that on repeat with different conversations, that is a perfect content pillar for you to dial into. And there's a lot of different philosophies on LinkedIn.

Kelli Schutrop [00:19:22]:
Some people will coach and train. You need to be posting every single day or you need to be posting twice a day. And maybe that's the case if you're trying for massive numbers, massive followings. Maybe if you've got like a business model that's different, right? Like a coach selling ebooks and you need a million people to buy the thing that costs a little bit of money. And you need a massive reach to create your revenue goals. Whereas in our industry, you don't need a million people. You just need a handful of the right people every month that start drumming up more opportunities. So.

Kelli Schutrop [00:19:50]:
So even when I was doing this more heavily, I was committed to twice a week posting. Right now I'm in a unique spot where I'm a purposeful solopreneur with strategic referral partners and I can only handle so much business. So I am posting once a week, not because I don't have thoughts to say, but because I'm in the fortunate situation of like, if I post things that are more geared at lead gen, I can't handle what all comes in. And so I'm trying to lean into what can I share that's insightful and adds value and kind of marinades the audience so they're gaining value. And when there is like a true deep need, then they're having a conversation. And I'll give you a success story from that. That was really fun. A few weeks ago I had someone reach out.

Kelli Schutrop [00:20:32]:
He is on the leadership team of a family of staffing firms. And I didn't even know we were connected. I didn't recognize his name. And he said we're considering marketing. You know, I've got two brands are going through another acquisition and I just want to have a dialogue. We had one one hour conversation and he said, I really like where this is going. I'm going to bring in the, you know, heads of the other companies to have a conversation and the owner over it and you can chat with them and they can ask any questions. In the meantime, can you send over a proposal of what this would look like? And what we were talking about is an annual marketing strategy for each of these and then ongoing advisory work to support them as they start building out these marketing strategies.

Kelli Schutrop [00:21:10]:
And. And there was another conversation that was about an hour. So aside from paperwork that I did in between, technically there were two one hour conversations and we are now partnered. Backstory. He has been following me for four years and seeing the content that I've been sharing. I connected with him four years ago with a simple message that said hi so and so I love connecting with other people that are passionate about the staffing and recruiting industry. That's it. He is not a firm was not a familiar name to me.

Kelli Schutrop [00:21:38]:
This isn't someone that I've been prospecting for years. So just as like a testament to that, some things happen quick, like the individual that I just referenced and some things will kind of sit behind the scenes and come back around, which is really exciting because he came in and this is what I want to encourage everyone here to do of like why you think about becoming a thought leader and be more visible and talk about the things. All you're doing is taking your area of expertise and showing other people that you have it. Because if it hadn't been for me posting consistently, this individual would never know that I exist, much less specialize in this space. And now he's sitting here thinking, I have a need. Who do I know that could help me Potentially at least get pointed in the right direction. It's Kelly. I'm gonna have a conversation with her.

Kelli Schutrop [00:22:24]:
Right. So the more we can all think about. You're an expert. You know your space. Most people in the staffing industry have been in this industry for a really long time. And if the only people who know about you are the people you've already met, you're missing out.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:37]:
I think you mentioned something that's also super important. With everything you've been doing for the past four years, you've also been connecting with your icp.

Kelli Schutrop [00:22:46]:
Yes, very important. Yes. Because if you're posting content and you're not connected to the right people, then you're really just relying on the few people you know to ripple it out to other right people. So it is really important to spend time not only connecting to the people you're in conversations with, but creating a list and saying, who do I want to get in front of that? Is it in this space whether they're active pursuit right now for me, or if it's someone that's just a nice network connection that's in this space? Think about, who are those people? What are the titles, what are the industries, what are the markets? And make connections. I'd also encourage you to, at this stage of where LinkedIn is, if you don't have a truly customized message to send that doesn't sound salesy, don't send a message. I never thought I would encourage someone to not send a message in a connection request, but like with AI and automation, we're all so primed to sense when somebody's going to pitch us the second we click accept and send us five messages in a week. And it's just not a good look. So if you're sending a connection request that kind of feels like you're going to do that, they might not even accept it, and then you don't get the opportunity to engage with them more authentically.

Kelli Schutrop [00:23:55]:
So I would say send the connection request and then do something out of the norm. Send a voice recording with your LinkedIn app saying, hey, Benjamin, you're on my radar because you specialize in X, Y, Z. And that's the space that I'm in. I'd love to talk shop anytime, you know, no pressure, but I'm here if you ever want to talk about your hiring needs for that space. Who does that right now? Nobody does that right now. Right. Like, those are the kinds of things that can help you stand out.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:20]:
The Elite Recruit podcast has multiple summits coming up that you need to make sure that you are registered for. We have the AI recruiting summit 2025 coming up. And on top of that, finish the year strong. These two summits are going to help you move the needle, help you achieve your goals, help you achieve your dreams, and make 2025 the year that you started out and you wanted to be. Make sure you get registered and also stay tuned. Got something cooking for you guys. Working on another project that you guys are going to absolutely love. All right, see you guys at the summits and see you guys soon.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:52]:
So you mentioned, like AI, how much should you be using AI in all this or should you not be using AI?

Kelli Schutrop [00:25:00]:
Yeah, loaded question. I think it's more important to look at AI like a resource on your team. So instead of saying, how could AI do all the things of my job, Think about what are the steps of my job that I'm doing right now or what are the steps of this, like, thought leadership process? And is there a tool that could streamline it for efficiency without sacrificing authenticity? Like, is it going to sound like a robot if I use AI? Because then at that point, like we all get emails in our inbox that sound canned and you know, they sent it to 2,000 people and you're probably not replying to it. And those are the areas where it's better to get a bit more customized. But I think AI can be a really beneficial tool to use. You know, I mean, even just when you go to send a follow up message to someone, like run that message script through AI and say, is there something that I could say that would make this sound more professional or more this or more that. And then of course there's different tools, right? Like Clark Wilcox, if you know him in the industry, Benjamin, I believe you do. He talks quite a bit about combining Dripify and sales Navy.

Kelli Schutrop [00:26:04]:
Right? So taking a tool where you can create a list on sales nav, right, Create your prospect list and then put it in Dripify and set up a campaign. And part of the campaign steps can be, I'm sending a message, then I'm sending a follow up message. But where I would encourage you to think strategically about it instead of just saying, yep, I'm using these tools and I know Clark would agree with me. Actually I was on his podcast recently. We're talking about this is think about those messages as though you were the one receiving them, right? You're not checking a box going, well, I need five messages in two weeks, so I gotta fill this space and write this copy and punch it out and see who replies. Like, put yourself in their shoes as a prospect. Would it be better just to have two messages over the course of two months, but actually have them be human and sound like if you were sending a message to your coworker? Like, if we could treat our prospects more like coworkers and people in our network that we didn't have anything to gain from, I think it would serve us better.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:56]:
Okay. And another question on AI. I feel like I can read and check out if it's read by AI in literally nanoseconds.

Kelli Schutrop [00:27:06]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:07]:
Is everybody there too?

Kelli Schutrop [00:27:08]:
I am. I feel, I mean, I don't know that everything I've read that I notice or don't notice is accurately AI. But there's certain tells, right? Like the LinkedIn posts that have an emoji before and after a title before it goes into the post. Right. Like, I think people are starting to pick up on that. And it's not that using AI is bad. It's that if the first thing somebody thinks subconsciously is that this isn't actually from them, like, you just might miss the opportunity to convey the whole thought. I mean, I would say for the same reason as when you write a post, start it with a hook instead of saying, yesterday I attended the XYZ event in this location at this date and I learned some cool things.

Kelli Schutrop [00:27:49]:
And then you're hoping that they click down to find the cool things, like, lead with the cool things. I'd say AI is similar. Right? Like, you can utilize it, but, like, make it yours.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:59]:
I always Forget about that LinkedIn hook thing. Like, yeah, half the time I write my messages not even thinking about it. Like, there's one. I. It was just coming back from Pinnacle, I was like, you know, in a room with recruiters that do on average $600 million or it was like $60 million a year in revenue. And didn't realize that that was like the top thing everybody saw. Yeah, I was just like typing it out. I'm like, oh, yeah, that stupid first line hook that you're supposed to do.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:22]:
I know.

Kelli Schutrop [00:28:22]:
I mean, sharing big numbers usually are a hook. But, you know, I posted recently, I was asked to be a part of a networking event at my alma mater. And it was in the same room as when I was a student there leading a leadership organization, as, you know, on campus. And I brought in speakers and instead of like, like, I really thought about it, I'm like, okay, I want to promote the woman doing this because I want to give her visibility because she's really doing a great job. But also I want to reflect on a cool story. But instead of leading it in with I was recently at Northwestern in St. Paul and the Da Da Da Committee was hosted by Da Da Da. I let in with something around how I had reached out to the chief marketing officer for Target and asked him to speak and he got back to me within two hours, which is fully a true story.

Kelli Schutrop [00:29:12]:
And it gave me so much confidence because I was a student leader at one point looking for speakers and I got a really quick reply from somebody that was a huge bigwig. And it just gave me the confidence to keep leaning into those risky asks. And then I moved down to describe I'm in the same room in like with my alma mater. This is the person hosting it right now. Like, don't sleep on the people that are doing things like this because they're go getters and they're gonna. They're gonna accomplish things in their career. So anyway, it all comes down to what is that hook and does it appeal to your ideal audience and what are you trying to convey? I'll also share that when I think about posting on LinkedIn, I think about it as one of three camps. Well, I guess it could be an overlap of a couple, but insightful, relatable, Incredible.

Kelli Schutrop [00:29:56]:
If you've heard me on other podcasts, you've probably heard me talk about this. So if your content is insightful, you are teaching people things. This is where the majority of content can lie, because you have knowledge. And even if you're like, I don't know, I'm drawing a blank. I can't think of anything that my audience could possibly want to hear out of my brain. Go to the associations that your audience is members of, right? Like your ideal clients. If you're in the government space, if you are in the healthcare space, whatever it is, right? Manufacturing, construction, there's associations for everything. Find out what they're posting and talk about it and give them credit, right? So there's different ways to be insightful.

Kelli Schutrop [00:30:34]:
Whether it's your original thought or you're recapping an idea, then credible is dang. That's impressive, right? These are fewer and harder to come by. This might be a speaking engagement, it might be an award, might be a career milestone. And then you've got relatable. So people can see you see themselves in that and they just feel like, oh, Benjamin's just a real person like me, you know, and I've got this need and I keep seeing him pop up, talking about how he can help in my area. I should talk to him, right? And then you've got kind of the overlap of all of it, of sharing content that your company posts and just doing things that add value to your audience. So they tend to fall in one of those three categories. Insightful, credible, and relatable.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:11]:
What's some of the biggest mistakes that you've seen people make when trying to do this?

Kelli Schutrop [00:31:18]:
Trying to be perfect is probably the biggest barrier I've seen. So not getting out of the starting block because they're so apprehensive to get that post out. And what I found is that when I switched from ad hoc posts on LinkedIn to when I was at Parker, committed to doing two posts a week no matter what, every post didn't carry as much gravitas. Cause I knew that I would have more that could bury it and it wouldn't make me so nervous if I'm like, oh, only three people like that post, or whatever. Like, if I felt like a dork about posting something, obviously you can always delete something. But what I learned to appreciate, even when posts go dark, so to speak, is it's still a part of a body of work, right? Like, I've got 10,000 people that I'm connected to on LinkedIn and I still have posts that only get a few people. Because for whatever reason, you know, sometimes if you don't get a few people interacting within the first 10 to 20 minutes, LinkedIn just stops showing it because it's got enough to prioritize to your audience. And so it's something that's gotten in my head, something that I think gets in a lot of people's head is like that perfection of like, oh, it's not flawless or I don't know exactly what to do.

Kelli Schutrop [00:32:22]:
But I would say the more you have this goal of like consistently posting once or twice a week, you don't worry about it as much, right? Someone else who does a good job of this and has for years is Lauren B. Jones, right? She's got Leap Advisory Solutions, Leap Advisory Partners. Go look up Lauren B. Jones. She's powerhouse, right? Like, I think we all kind of came to know Lauren if we didn't already around Covid time when she launched her own business focus on tech stack integration and adoption and all of that. And she's at, you know, really just every staffing industry conference. But she has done a nice job just sharing her story. Like, she recently posted, depending on when you're listening to this, that it was this week about her five year anniversary for her company.

Kelli Schutrop [00:33:02]:
And what she didn't do is say everything is perfect, it's all sunshine and roses. What she did say is this is where we really messed up, but this is where we're really celebrating. And so that is just a beautiful way to convey appreciation to her network, to her clients, but also grow visibility for what she does. And because she posted that, she'll love it if she hears this. Because she posted that. I was in a conversation with, with a new client this week and I thought of her and I don't know that I wouldn't have thought of her, but they're going through ATS evaluations and you know, thinking about their tech stack because there's like merger acquisition engagements happening. And I truly think it's because I saw her post that that my first thought is like, I need to introduce him to Lauren. And so there's just really cool ways that you showing up and being visible and not being too scared to fail forward can help your business grow.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:56]:
So some of the biggest things is like, you got to get out of your way, get out of your comfort zone. Even though if you're afraid to post something, just go ahead and post it. You're talking a lot about video. Is written posts still effective on LinkedIn?

Kelli Schutrop [00:34:08]:
Yes. Yes. So all the different formats of content on LinkedIn are effective. It's just that video is getting extra prioritization as our carousels. So if you're like, what the heck's a carousel? That's just where there's an image and you click right and it can flip, flip through. Part of the reason why that is effective is because it increases people's time on a post because they're digesting the content. And if you look at that and say, I could never create that, I'm not a designer. Go check out Canva.

Kelli Schutrop [00:34:33]:
It's like the word canvas, but no S. It's a free tool. You can upgrade if you want. But it's awesome. They've got templates for everything, including carousels. But yeah, copy based posts and copying image posts are still incredibly valuable. And I think the most important thing to remember is how do you digest content on LinkedIn? Other people still do that too. Right? Like if I went to LinkedIn tomorrow and it was only video, I think I'd be a bit annoyed.

Kelli Schutrop [00:34:58]:
I'd be like, what is this? Come on.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:00]:
Like, I, like this is why I'm not on TikTok.

Kelli Schutrop [00:35:04]:
Sure. Like, I think about it when I'm in like fun mode. Right. Like I go on Instagram, and I'm scrolling through stories or Facebook shorts or, you know, you get stuck in that world. But I like the variety visually of, like, I can skim through this. If it's text, I can look through it. If it's photos, oh, I'm going to stop on this, this video. So they're all still valuable forms of content.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:23]:
So what do you think the future of expert visibility is going to look like over the next year or two?

Kelli Schutrop [00:35:29]:
I think more people will get comfortable with showing up as their personal brand, but I think AI is going to try to automate that. What I mean by that is I think people are going to try to shortcut it. So, Benjamin, in theory, you can go to a tool and say, here's my face, here's my voice, here's the topics. AI spit out 10 thought leadership videos for me that are under 30 seconds in vertical, right? So kind of like we think about, like, headshots. Like, you see it, I'm on some people's LinkedIn profiles and you can tell it's AI, but it's like, that's fine. It's a cool headshot, right? Like, it, you know, it's a cool image representing you. I think we're going to see more and more of that. I think if that happens at first, it will feel novel and cool.

Kelli Schutrop [00:36:11]:
Kind of like this is really going to date this podcast. Like, the trend of the picture of you at a toy package that you create with chat GPT. Like, everybody will have it, it'll blow up. But then what it's going to do is create just this numbness of like, but this isn't really Benjamin, like, this. Is this really that what this person thinks? Or am I just listening to, like, a canned robot voice here? So I think the more raw and authentic thoughts are going to be more valuable as we're looking at content on LinkedIn. Like, the people that are maybe telling the stories of what isn't working well or even what is working well, but with really tangible background, I think that's gonna play. Cause otherwise, if everybody just starts saying the same, and then you should send your candidates this information. You know, if everybody sounds like a robot and everybody looks the same, you don't stand out anymore.

Kelli Schutrop [00:37:00]:
So I think that can be the challenge of, like, yes, adopt it, but be your own person, be your own voice.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:05]:
I think that's crazy that you said, like, talked about the cause. Like, you're right. I can literally just have an AI avatar of myself completely cone voice, complete everything. Just say whatever I want it to say. And even with has weird my normal hand movements too.

Kelli Schutrop [00:37:19]:
Yeah, yeah. And. And I think that works for some industries, right? Like, if I go on YouTube and I want to learn everything there is about a brand or whatever, like an iPhone update, I don't know, whatever it is, I don't really care. I mean, the people won't love hearing say this who are recording those videos, but, like, I don't really care who's telling me that information. I really just want to know about the iPhone Fe and if I want to get it. But if I'm considering a partnership for an executive search firm or a staffing partner that I want to have help me with hundreds of people, I care a lot about the people that are implementing that service for me. So I think that there are ways and industries that that plays well in, and I don't think ours is going to be one of them. I think it'll make our jobs easier to be thought leaders, but I don't think it'll actually make us thought leaders unless we actually show up and just like, be real, right? It's kind of like, you see, you see content, you see posts, and like, you're saying you can see through it and you're like, okay, this is AI.

Kelli Schutrop [00:38:17]:
Like, every once in a while and AI is getting better, but every once in a while you'll see something. You're like, I don't even know what. I just read. Like, there's a lot of words here and there's a theme, but like, it's circulating around itself 20 times. And so anyway, it'll continue to improve, but I think still just the human factor is really valuable and you do a good job of hosting people that are in the staffing industry that tell powerful stories. You know, these are not avatars like Sharon Hulse, right? Powerhouse. Like, she's a powerhouse because of how she's approached her career and surrounded herself with her team. And, like, there's reasons that people are intrigued by her story and it's not because she's a fictitious character of a success story in the staffing industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:58]:
Well, if you want a good laugh, I was hanging out with her at in Vegas for a conference and her podcast dropped, like, the day of the conference. And she was just like, I hate you, Ben. Like, just because the messages, she's like, I'm not in front of my computer. This is like the worst thing ever. I was like, oh, sorry, I should have given you a heads up on that one. But anyway, so I feel like I feel like we can. We can go on forever. And I know we're heading short on time.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:20]:
I know you're going to be kicking off, finish the year strong in October, so make sure to sign up and, like, some of the things that she's talking about, you know, definitely hit Kelly up. But if you want a good walkthrough, exactly what you need to be implementing, make sure you get registered for that. It's free for the live sessions, a small nominal amount for the replays. The whole week's like a $10,000 masterclass for almost nothing. So make sure you get signed up so we can walk through, because the problem with me and Kelly is I feel like we could spend two hours having this conversation.

Kelli Schutrop [00:39:47]:
Oh, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:48]:
So we're going to jump over to the quick fire questions.

Kelli Schutrop [00:39:50]:
Ooh.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:50]:
What is the first piece of advice that you would give to somebody that's, like, afraid to start out on getting content? And I know you might repeat yourself, but I want to go over it again.

Kelli Schutrop [00:39:58]:
If you are starting out posting on LinkedIn and being consistent, set yourself the dare to post once a week, no matter what. Not a reshare. Has to be your own original thoughts and content. And bonus points if it's a video.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:12]:
All right, what is a favorite book that has had impact on you?

Kelli Schutrop [00:40:16]:
Ooh, good question. I read the Power of Grit, I think is the title by Angela Duckworth, talking about just that, like, persistence and resiliency and how every different space of life, whether you're playing chess or cooking or a really great recruiter. Right. There's that power of grit, and she's got a quiz, and I'm a sucker for quizzes of, like, your grit factor. So I would. I would recommend checking that one out.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:41]:
All right. Favorite tech tool that you absolutely love.

Kelli Schutrop [00:40:45]:
Oh, shoot. Oh, I feel like there's so many I use. I like Canva. I think Canva's like, a really good jack of all trades. I think it does a nice job. Right. Like, who doesn't love creating designs and making it feel like you're super experienced and fancy when you're really just dragging and dropping? That's a good one.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:02]:
I mean, if you want a good laugh, I have somebody help me make a template, and I just repeat that template.

Kelli Schutrop [00:41:07]:
It's great. Canva's great.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:10]:
What is one of the biggest failures that you've had to deal with in the recruiting space and how did you work through it?

Kelli Schutrop [00:41:18]:
Yeah, so when I helped launch the digital agency a number of years ago, I didn't know What I didn't know, right, we started running LinkedIn ads, started trying to attract conversations and we had one at that time, one powerful case study to tell. And it was our sister company, which is called Versiq Executive Search and Consulting. It's a large scale search and consulting firm, privately held, single site. And marketing was working so well for us, right. There was years where we had 50% of revenue coming from marketing sources. And as I started to pivot and sell to other staffing and recruiting firms, I told that story and backed myself into the corner of this is what we did. And then I'd get the question, okay, well what do I spend and exactly how much time do I need to have that exact result? And so it taught me from a sales standpoint of developing the process and selling the process, not just selling the singular result. So I guess for a recruiter to adapt that or someone in the industry it would be yes, you've had successes with different placements, but lean into what the process is of how you got there because that is what will actually apply directly to that client.

Kelli Schutrop [00:42:22]:
Because they're not going to hire the exact same person that that other company did, but they're going to rely on your process to get there.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:28]:
Everything that you've learned now you've done a lot of like stuff in our space. If you get the chance to go back to yourself in the very beginning of when you are really helping like expand that company Parka into like to try to duplicate 50% of the exact searches business for marketing to other stuff, what advice would you tell yourself?

Kelli Schutrop [00:42:51]:
I would say seek out companies that I didn't think needed our help because they were already rocking it and ask them what they were doing. Create a focus group around the best case scenarios. Even if I couldn't sell to them because they didn't need it at all, because I don't think they'd have any beef with sharing high level anyway what they were doing. Well, I've always been a proponent for seeking out mentorship, but I don't know that I've done a great job of that with like as I'm developing new service lines and businesses to go after people who are doing it excellently and say how did you do that? Because if I can help other people do that non competitive to you, I think that would be the key. You'd have to focus in on that. You don't want to create stronger competitors to them, but figure out kind of the best practices that way instead of having to cut your own teeth through it that might be beneficial if you.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:35]:
Want a good laugh. Like other recruiting podcasts. I'm like, hey, I just had this great conversation. You should have them on your podcast too. Like, I don't care.

Kelli Schutrop [00:43:40]:
Right? Yeah, no, I think. I think the tide rises all ships, honestly. And I enjoy working with companies that have that mindset.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:47]:
All right, so I know you. You get a lot of questions from recruiters. You got a lot of questions from firm owners. You know, they're attackable. What do I need to do here? What is a question that you honestly wish they would ask but that they never do? And what's that answer?

Kelli Schutrop [00:43:58]:
Oh, that's a good question. I would love for them to ask me, if I don't focus, whether with you or with someone else on these types of efforts, where will I be in two years? And my answer would be in the same spot. Do you want to be there? And actually probably in a worse spot, because your competitors will probably start investing in this type of effort. So I'd want someone to ask me, what is the cost of inaction? To kick it back. I'll give credit to that phrase. Jen Allen Knuth talks about cost of inaction when selling. It's not just like, what is your return on investment? Like, it's less of, if you spend this, you will get this. It's more like, if you don't, what are you risking? Whether you work with me or someone else, I don't care.

Kelli Schutrop [00:44:39]:
But what are you risking right now if you are not focusing on becoming a thought leader? That's what I wish people would ask me.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:46]:
Love that. And if anybody wants to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Kelli Schutrop [00:44:50]:
They find me on LinkedIn. I spend so much time on LinkedIn, it's become my preference social channel. So just look up Kelly Shoe Trap and you can find me there if.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:01]:
You want a good laugh. I was, you know, I've been flying across the country. I see more people in the airport on LinkedIn than, like, Instagram or TikTok.

Kelli Schutrop [00:45:07]:
That cracks me up. That's so funny. I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:11]:
Well, I gotta let you go in a second. But before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Kelli Schutrop [00:45:16]:
You know, I would say this concept of personal branding, thought leadership, expert visibility might feel fluffy, but I have personally closed close to $5 million of revenue through this. And I have clients closing revenue through this. And it doesn't have to do with partnering with me. Please don't hear that out of it. My intent is to say, if you are not investing in yourself, you're missing out on actual dollars. Right? Like you, you follow people on LinkedIn, whether they're in your space or otherwise, that you're probably impressed by. And don't you want to be that person for your space, for your clients to reach out? So I would just say spend the time. Put a half an hour on your calendar every week where you're just like, all right, I'm just gonna do the thing.

Kelli Schutrop [00:45:57]:
And if you're super active on LinkedIn already, spend that half an hour to be thoughtful instead of just busy on LinkedIn and say, okay, what do I think will actually get me in front of the right audience? Is it going through my prospect list and seeing if they've recently commented or posted so that I can comment? So just spend time dialed into it because you're going to be better off in a month, years down the road if you do it now.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:18]:
Awesome. I mean, Kelly, thank you so much for coming back, being a returning guest and one of the first few people that actually was like, podcasts are recruiting. Who the hell are you?

Kelli Schutrop [00:46:27]:
Oh, Benjamin sent me a handwritten postcard telling me thank you. I don't think he can do that with his volume now, but it meant the world. And I will say shout out for being on podcasts. Right? Like, I just had somebody reach out a month ago who I didn't know. He didn't know me, but he saw me on that original podcast, the years ago podcast, and I'm like, four years ago? Yes, because he saw what you're doing and he started at the top. So he got to it.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:52]:
The podcast is four years ago and they partnered with you from that episode just a little while ago.

Kelli Schutrop [00:46:56]:
That's wild. Yeah, they partnered with me two months ago from listening to that episode.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:01]:
But for the listeners, I want you to go crush it. I know plenty of recruiters that they have inbound business because of the being a thought leadership. So take advantage of what you've learned here and also make sure to sign up to see Kelly at finish the year strong. And guys, keep crushing it.

Kelli Schutrop [00:47:15]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Master. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.