Mastering Recruitment Relationships with Kevin Kirkpatrick

Benjamin Mena [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Menna, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements. Quick announcement before we get started. Book of the month for the elite recruiter community. Never split the difference by Chris Voss. Make sure to pick it up, read it this month, and start utilizing what you learned in this book for your recruiting career. All right, enjoy, guys. I'm excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:39]:
We're going to talk about one of the hardest niches to recruit out there, the medical industry, what's working in the medical space, what's not working. But on top of that, we're also going to talk about being able to recruit across different countries, which is, I think, I believe, is something fascinating that I think many of us just haven't even thought about before. So this is going to be an awesome episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast. I have my special guest, Kevin Kirkpatrick, with me to share the secrets of metal core recruiting. So welcome to the podcast, Kevin.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:01:10]:
Thanks, Benjamin. Glad to. Glad to be here. I've listened to a lot of the episodes, so I'm flattered to be asked to be a guest.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:18]:
So we always get started. How did you end up in this wonderful world of recruiting?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:01:25]:
Email, lunch. I went to school for human resources, and then I went back to school for computer systems, and I worked for a call center doing technical support. And I was on the bus. I was in, I was at, I was on my way to a training session with the company, and I was on the bus, and my boss said, did you study human resources? Then? I said, yeah, she was, do you want to be a recruiter? Any recruiter was. So me, you know, me being, you know, 24 and looking to get married and stuff like that, I honestly doesn't pay well. And she said, well, it's a whole dollar an hour more. So I was like, I'm in. Like, I'm going from $10 an hour to $11 an hour.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:02:08]:
I'm great. Let's do this right. That is awesome. Yeah. My first literary job, I hired anywhere between 32 and 64 call center agents a week for $11 an hour. Wow. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was great.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:02:26]:
It was an entry level role, so it wasn't like high level positions, but it was a lot of the same interviews over and over again every half hour for 10 hours a day. Right. Okay. So you was overtime. So, you know, like, I. I remember at one point, I worked 36 or 40 days straight and I was, I was loving that extra money, right.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:51]:
That is awesome. Yeah, I remember like back in the day, like when you did get the opportunity for overtime and the difference in the pay, that was always phenomenal. So, okay, so you were a call center recruiter?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:03:02]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:03]:
How did you get into the medical field? Like what's the in between there?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:03:07]:
Yeah, so I went from the call center, I went to telecommunications and this is in 1999, right. So I went to a telecommunications company. We did a lot of project management and network architects. So I did that for a few years as an agency and you know, I wanted to try corporate, right. Because at that time tech corporate, corporate recruiters were making really good money in town because it was, you know, it was a bellwether time. So I was like, I'm going to try this corporate but I lived in Ottawa ten and it was bilingual so I'm not, I don't speak French. Right. I can, I can order a beer and say inappropriate bank.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:03:49]:
That's what they said, right. So I'm like I need to look at somewhere different. So my wife was from a community that was about 3 hours away so I thought, you know what, like that'd be an interesting, interesting thing. Go live by your family. And so I applied to a hospital recruiting job, right and it was interesting because they said, oh, you're gonna, you're gonna recruit for universities, rod, techs, finance and pretty much everything in Austin. So I'm like, all right, you know, seems cool. And so I started there in 2000 and about two weeks in they said, oh by the way, you're also going to start recruiting for physicians. So I was like, all right, I guess we're learning on the fly here, right? So I spent four years doing that where I retrieved pretty much everything, everything from chief executives right down to, or not down to, but took floor cleaners and everything else along the way.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:04:48]:
In 2008 I decided I was, had no need for growth. I'm not an HR person, love HR people, but that's just not me. I'm a recruiting geek, Karen. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm interested in recruiting all. So I then started my own agency in 2008 and I was blessed. Like I fell into it backwards where the hospital was, didn't want me to leave so they said well can we contract a portion of your time? Im like sure, right ill give you three days a week for I think it was like $7,000 and I did that for four years. Meanwhile growing my other clients outside of that. And the only thing was everything I did outside was tech because I didnt want to muddy my brain by doing elf.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:05:36]:
But I ended that contract in 2012, and then I went all in on, on physician health care. That is awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:45]:
Real quick pause there. So, like you were saying, and I think this is like a good structure, and I don't believe this is going to happen everywhere or everybody's going to have this opportunity, but I think it just showed the quality of the work that you did before you made the job. That where you were working at for multiple years, they wanted to be your first client.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:06:04]:
Yeah. And then, I mean, and you laughed, but they'd been, they were a client of mine last year. Right. So it was interesting because I enjoyed the understanding the client structure and being somewhat in house. So kind of why I like to do the executive and physician search is because I feel like I get more information and it's almost like I'm part of the team. Right. So from that, that aspect of it seemed I enjoy the engagement that way. And to this point, almost 90% of my business is referrals.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:06:45]:
I am the worst business development person ever. So if anybody's looking for advice, don't call. I was joking. I was bugging rich Rosen this week because I'm like, I need some business development advice. It's literally been, I recruited position here, so they told somebody else when they were remissing about how hard it was, and next thing you know, that I'm getting.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:11]:
Well and, okay, so I don't take this the wrong way, but you're doing something that I believe most recruiters have kind of skipped or they haven't done it. Like, you've built a brand within this space, but you've also mastered relationships. Was there something like. And we're going to kind of talk about that a little bit. When you were working as the in house recruiter, they loved you so much they wanted to give you a contract. How many other recruiters were in that office or part of that system?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:07:41]:
So I was lucky. There was like two of us, three of us. Right. So it was, they were like, oh, my. All of this knowledge is going to walk out. So there was a bit of some cards in my hand because of that.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:56]:
I mean, they could have, they could have easily just gone and, like, put a job up and got another recruiter. You did something different with relationships. How did you work those relationships to make them that they're still a client? This is back in 2008. We're back in 22. We're now at 2024. They're still a client. Like what did you do on the relationship side of the house for that?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:08:15]:
I like to over communicate and what I love is strategy. Like I just uh, I just did a project, a couple projects developing strategy fabric strategies for this and health care organization that I just like, you know, trying to figure out how we can make them better, right. And so it's not a, it's not strictly about making a placement, it's about how can I leave the organization better than I started, right. And could be mentoring their recruitment, it could be helping them look at their compensation structure, right. It's like how do you leave that? Because value and create brand which creates that attractive. I think that it's just about doing that. I'm not an expert at it because I still have to put a note in my calendar for every Friday morning. Email all my clients, right.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:09:16]:
Some of them I may not get them every week, right. But I try and make sure that I'm emailing updates on a regular basis because, and because it's mostly retained search. You want them to know where their money is gone. Right. And you want. And, and because there's. It's health. True.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:09:38]:
With trading is never fast enough because some of my searches take twelve months, right. Because I've had to relocate a physician from the UK to a part of Canada or you know I had to kind of had to get, wait for them to finish a fellowship or finish a residence and so it takes longer. So the problem is if you can't meet the expectations around timeline, you have to communicate what's being done on their behalf. Right. Give them the light at the end of the tunnel so that they can, that they can wait because they know what they're waiting for. Whereas if you don't tell them what they're waiting for, they just think they're waiting and they'll assume the worst that you're off playing golf or something. Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:21]:
And you know what I have heard for industry wide and trainings and stuff like that, that so many recruiters, they get to sign contract and then they never actually have a conversation ever again.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:10:32]:
Yeah. So I have an intake template so my normal process is I will, you know, you have the initial sales call, you know, you agree you're gonna work together. Then I, once the contract sign, then I do an intake, right. And that's a meeting where I ask, I think it's about twelve questions because with physicians they're so busy and I'm sure this is true in tech too. Right. The person's so busy that if you can't hook them and engage them with enough information at the start, you're not going to engage them at all. They're just going to move on to the next thing. So I have always, and this is that internal recruiter piece of me too.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:11:16]:
Right. Is I want to know enough that they think I work directly for that hospital. Right. So then I can give them enough, I can answer their first five questions so that they decide that, yeah, I want to for progressing this process or, or, no, I'm not, but I've done enough that hopefully they tell me, tell their friend about, or they give me their friend's name and I know. Right. Because I want every call to either be a candidate or referral.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:43]:
Okay, so you, you also have a game plan for almost every single call. You're trying to get something out of it.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:11:47]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:48]:
Or subconsciously or give or give gives.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:11:51]:
Or like in part valuing or retrieve value. Okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:56]:
Do you think that you are better with these long term relationships because you are an internal recruiter? Because I know when it comes down to growing up in an agency, many places it's turn and burn. And I think that turn and burn has really hurt the longevity in our industry. But you going internal for a little while, did that help develop that relational structure?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:12:21]:
I think so. I think a bit. I've also gone internal a couple other times over the last 16 years. Right. I went to work for two other hospitals, mostly because of project based stuff. Like one hospital wanted somebody edit, audit their processes and stuff. So I went in, put service level agreements in place, looked at the tech stack, did some recruitment, mentoring, and then after a year, it was where it needed to be. And I, and I left and went back to doing my whole technical time.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:12:49]:
And then I went through a personal situation a couple of years, probably five years ago now. So just for stability, I went in house for a couple years. Okay. So it was just a case of meeting some stability while I went through a divorce. So I do think that helps. I do think the fact that the search has taken longer makes. So you have to communicate, uh, more. But I, I was luxy because when I got into recruiting, I never went into a, into a churn and burn environment.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:13:24]:
The, the first place I went to, you know, we charged $1000 to $1,500 a day per consultant. Right. So, okay. You know, you weren't, you, you weren't looking at high volume. So I did go to search firm at one point years and years ago called Quantum and it was, you know, quantum management recruiters. And it was like the turn, turn. And I lasted four months. Right? I mean, I made one placement in Florence.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:13:54]:
They found out I was looking for another job and let me go. Right. So I spent the summer playing golf. It was the best year.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:01]:
Well, I want to jump over a little more on medical recruiting. So when it comes to tech and when it comes to most other places, like, there's. Everybody lives on LinkedIn. Like, there's a LinkedIn profile for everybody. But when it comes to the medical space, what is it? Something like maybe only 50% of the people in medical career live on LinkedIn. So how do you even find these people?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:14:20]:
Yeah. So the beauty of it is. So. And it's funny because this differs between from country to country, right? Okay. Years ago, I started doing work in the US as well. And part of the reason was because there's more tools, right? There's companies like practice match profiles, LLC, that. That sell you screen lists of residents, right? Then you've got heartbeat AI, doximity, that both are like LinkedIn for healthcare. And then every state's got a list of their practitioners that usually has contact info, or you can cross reference it with social media.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:15:02]:
So the US is a lot easier that way. I've also, last September, I decided to grow some confidence and start posting more online and doing LinkedIn lives and starting a podcast, try to attract more people to reach out to me because it's harder and harder to find the names. But the biggest thing is you got to build relationship collateral to get referrals, right? Because that's how you find that people that aren't on LinkedIn, or they've got a LinkedIn profile from when they graduated from medical school 20 years ago. So it really comes down to pushing those referrals, right? And that's why when I. When I coached anybody or talked to anybody, I said, you know, every conversation has to either a handed or a lead. Not enough, because there's always so many physicians. And I can't say, oh, I'm going to put you at a boot camp and teach you five programming languages, and then you'll learn on the job. We don't have that luxury.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:16:09]:
And then in Canada, we can recruit from the UK and Ireland, stuff like that. But in the US, you're confined to within the US, because even Canada to the US is a challenge because there's exams that have to be done in order given a club b license, right. So I'm actually at easier time recruiting Americans to come to Canada than Canadians to go to the US. So, yeah, it's crazy.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:35]:
Now, you said, what was it? Relationship capital was the word you used?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:16:39]:
Yeah. You got to build relationship capital, right? Like deposit capital in someone else's bank so that they then have a reason to help you. Right. It takes a long time. It's not something that you, too, rush. And as someone who's got, you know, an old baby hd, like, you know, it's something I'm constantly having to remind myself. Right. And I had this conversation two weeks ago where, you know, someone referred somebody to me and I emailed them right away and personally referred to him, said, chat, you need to slow down.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:17:11]:
Like, you're worth being referred to. So let them. Let them investigate you and let them come to you. And I was like, there's something to be said for that. Right? So it's really being patient and stuff like that. I've bounced from doing nursing to not doing nursing to doing physicians, to doing executives not doing physicians. And each time you do, I make a change like that. You have to rebuild that because people don't know what you're doing.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:17:43]:
So sometimes that's the value of a niche and staying in a niche for an extended period of time. I've befuddled lightweight to being in healthcare for 20 years, so that saved my bank. Trey.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:00]:
Well, one more question on these relationships and the capital that you've built for somebody that has adhd. So you're always like, squirrel person, squirrel. Do you have a system in place that helps you keep up with these relationships?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:18:19]:
Yeah. So I think the beauty of posting more content on LinkedIn has allowed me a group of people that are constantly commenting on my posts and interacting with my posts. I feel that's helping me build a little community. But then, like every Friday morning, I have a note in my calendar to email all of my clients. I open up my crelate and I go one by one and email them all, update some of them I might have talked to two days earlier, but it's just, it's my way of knowing that at least once a week, you're going to hear from me, right. And then I pester my clients to give me their cell phone numbers. So I will text, right? Because on a Wednesday, sitting on the couch, I might have a break, a brain doctor and say, oh, what about this? And then text that client. So I like to communicate a lot.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:19:12]:
So I think that's my key. And it's use your ats. I need to get better at using mine. And then put calendar reminders and just figure out what's going to work for you to ensure that you have that regular, regular touch points. Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:32]:
Okay, awesome. And you've been solo or small team most of this time. What are some of the challenges that you've had to overcome to keep on seeing the success as a solo builder right now?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:19:46]:
Yeah. So I think staying consistent with where you are through good times and bad times I think is a good, is a good tactic. So my canadian business has been pretty stable right from the get go, but my us business has gone up and down as the economy gone up and down. So I think consistency is there, figuring out how to get the most out of yourself before you start looking at other people and I think is key. Right. Last year I made a lot of mistakes actually because I hired people to work for me and I probably wasted about waste to them. To me, I probably spent like $90,000 on people last year that didn't generate any places. Right.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:20:38]:
So that's a lesson learned. Yeah, it's a tough one. Right. But part of it was I tried, I tried international sources and you know, they generated volumes of work but it wasnt the right, so, okay. They were good at finding nurses or respiratory therapy checks, but the physician and executive staff, that really was my passion, they did not. So I was trying to boil the ocean a little bit and because of that came extra cost, became inefficiencies because I was running around. Right. Like theyd be sending me setting up meetings like elder with, with a physician that I couldn't place because they couldn't get a license or they couldn't get through immigration and then I'm going to spend, I have to be mindful of the fact that they've set up an interview with somebody so then I have to have a conversation with that person and basically tell them, sorry we wasted.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:21:32]:
So I really think I have my niece that works for me. She's a university student, she works 20 hours a week for me and it's been the best. Right. Because she's like an extension of me. So she does work that feeds into me. Right, okay. And then I hired a gentleman who works fully in the US that is slowly coming on. And the problem with physician stuff is it takes six to twelve months to start seeing revenue.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:22:03]:
So you've got to be patient and that's, for me that's really hard because you're still paying expenses every month with nothing coming in. So honestly think it comes down to leveraging your time as well as you can. And focusing on understanding that your systems will determine how you use your time and get the most out. Right. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:27]:
You mentioned one thing a second ago. You have your canadian business and then you have your us business. What's it like having technically multiple businesses in multiple countries?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:22:38]:
It's kind of cool actually. The reason is, is that there's so many similarities and this is more Canada US. There's so many cool similarities between the two countries that it's like, it's like, you know, working with those cool cousins that you. That you know. Right. Like it's not, it's not like trying. I mean if I was trying to do work in Singapore or something like that, or the middle east, it would be where there's cultural like vast culture and differences, it would probably be much harder. But, and there's been such a long standing history in healthcare of people going between the two countries.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:23:12]:
Right? Like the US has been hiring travel nurses from Canada for 30 years. So it's really like. Yeah, it's like that cool cousin. Right. They might sound a little bit different than you, but you know, but Larry. And then the other thing too is I think the healthcare systems are so drastically different that you just have to be mindful of the nuances and understand that each jurisdiction has different rules and different opportunities. Right. So its good.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:23:45]:
And its gives me an excuse to visit the US on a regular basis. Right. I like Chilton head in South Carolina a lot. So its Florida, in Texas. So it gives me an excuse to go down there and, and golf church. Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:02]:
Well this is going to sound like a completely stupid question because I'm completely naive to having a business in another country. Like can you expense one of the tools that you're using in the US for your canadian business also?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:24:12]:
So the US businesses pay my canadian business. So technically I only have one physical business. Okay. Right. So they invoice them and they pay. They pay me. And there's a form that I have to fill out a w nine. It, it's been a while because it's mostly clients.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:24:31]:
So there's that. What is, is nice is that if I, all of the tools, I don't know who in the recruitment industry decided this, but every tool I use, they charge me american dollars. Right? Like for swell charges the in american dollars. I live in Canada. Right? So what else?

Benjamin Mena [00:24:50]:
They're uk company too.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:24:51]:
Yeah. And so you know, create it. Same thing. Like everybody charges an american dollar so they'll be like, oh, it's $99 a month. No it's not. It's 130 because I have to do the exchange rate. So now in defense of that, when I make a placement of the US, I get 30% more when it's converted into canadian dollars. Right.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:25:13]:
So you mean my bank has an american, I have an american account. The money goes in there and then I can move it whatever the days exchange rate is into my canadian. Right. Okay. At some point I will, from the knock on wood, will open up an actual corporate entity in the United States owned by the canadian entity. And then look at that because it'll be easier because right now I have to use a third party to pay out commissions and stuff in the US instead of doing it directly. Right. So you lose money that way.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:25:45]:
But the filing costs and the IR's scares me. So the IR's scares all the sub Americans.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:52]:
So don't worry.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:25:53]:
Yeah. Okay. Revenue Canada scares me too. Not as much as the IR's but can just get an american that might help that. Right. Cool. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:04]:
I was just pure curiosity because we've looked at opening up some bank accounts in other countries and they're like, oh, american. Oh wait, too much work for us. We don't want to touch you.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:26:15]:
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, a friend of mine who's outside of the US that works in the US, they've had challenges with clients where they're like we want deposited to a us company, a us bank account and not a wise account or whatever it just talk to your accountant. The two countries are so intertwined in business, we're each other's largest trade partners. You know, there's ways to do it. It just means talking your account ahead of time. And I've seen a ton of the american firms do placements in Canada as well. Right. So there's that.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:26:59]:
And to be honest with you, as someone with ADHD, I like going between different systems because it's not the same thing over and over again. Like dealing with a for profit hospital is so much better than myself. Provincially funded hospital. So, you know, like there's different aspects. Right? So it's all. It's kind of neat.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:22]:
Now, you also mentioned LinkedIn lives and you've been telling me about this like, you know, before the podcast.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:27:29]:
It seems.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:30]:
Like LinkedIn's really pushing lives. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:27:33]:
Yeah. So I use streamyard. Cash is a great tool. I really like it because it's nice and easy to use and it basically pushes your content to multiple places. So my LinkedIn lives don't go to LinkedIn, they go to YouTube lives and they go to Twitter, I believe, and Facebook. I started off trying to do blog posts and have a list of subscribers and stuff, but I'm a terrible writer. So I'm like, you know what? Let's make my life simpler. And I'll just record myself talking to.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:28:11]:
And found that the ability to have a conversation with somebody shows your knowledge better than any sort of written post. And, all right, it goes back and forth. You can expand on things easily. You can leverage the other person's response and, and engage what they're saying. So I found that almost every lead in life I've done has resulted in either quiet lead or candidates. Powerful. And it's interesting because I was talking to someone and I said, it's not about likes, it's about engagement. If I get zero likes that someone emails me and says, hey, you sounded like an idiot.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:28:58]:
I'll take that. Because it's a conversation. It's beyond just a. Someone's clicked the like button and moved on with their day. Right. So, I mean, that's the key for me is it's like I want to say something that people either ask more questions about or they tell me I'm wrong. That's cool, too, because I've been around a million times in my life. So, you know, it's just, it's just that.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:29:18]:
And I do find the engagement that is better with those than it is with my, my posts itself.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:27]:
So you, I love that you've been going live, and almost every single time that you go live, it has turned into either a new conversation for a new client or a new conversation for a new candidate. And that's just, I think that's so powerful. And it's also something that not very many people are doing. And I, because of you, I've actually started replaying the podcast episodes, like restreaming.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:29:50]:
It live on LinkedIn.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:52]:
And it's like that past five episodes is like 4000 minutes of watch time.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:29:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, if you think about it like you're sitting on Leap, most of us have LinkedIn open on one screen or another. Right. And he's so easy to click the play button and listen to it while you're doing something. Right. Like, I have a, behind my monitors, I have a big 52 inch screen, and I will manually pay one. Like, I play a lot of your podcasts on the screen while I'm doing work.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:30:23]:
All right, thank you. Because the notion of sitting for 30 minutes and looking strictly at a podcast that you need, my brain doesn't work. That way, but I can listen to it while I'm creating call lists or while I'm creating ads or in canva or whatever. So it's easier that way. And people, what I've learned is that people want to do business with people they know or feel like they know and they want to build trust and often that comes from listening to somebody talk and answer questions. Right. So I think that's where the videos really come in quite easily. And then I use bad Vidyard to do the odd little, you know, where they have the picture in the bottom corner.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:31:07]:
Yeah. Screen. Like I'll, I'll log in and I'll look at my profile and then do a little update video and stuff like that. Right. So I'm trying to be more out and about and share my expertise and it's worked out. Like for the first time ever I have hospitals calling me and saying can you help us look at our process and make changes? Right. So I kind of gone into advisory work beyond just the executive search. Right.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:31:35]:
So. Which then is fun for me because I'm a geek and I like that. Right. Going to an organization and figuring out how they can do their work themselves is rewarding. Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:48]:
Alan, I believe the modern day recruiter isnt just a placement machine anymore. A modern day recruiter is a true consultant.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:31:56]:
Yeah. If I look at last years billings, probably 25% came from consulting and the other 75% was placed. Thats awesome. For me it's a sanity, it's not even a monetary thing because I'd be willing to bet if I took that time and focused on just making placements I probably would have made more money. However, my soul and the recharging of my batteries and stuff like that because that's the hard part is recruiting takes so much, you take so many hits and it's so much negativity that I do those things because it gives, fills my, my, you battery. Right. Perfect.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:38]:
Well, before we move on to the next part of the podcast, is there anything else that you would love to share about recruiting in the medical industry?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:32:44]:
You know what, it's even with physicians and everything else it is, it's really executive search based on the amount of time and energy you need to have to understand the role because they're giving, they are, they're pretty concerning. Right. So you know, having, having a lot of time. Client started this year. She's definitely there. And it might be that way in tech too, but I haven't been in tech recruitings for, you know, too long. So I know I can't speak to that at all.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:15]:
Awesome. We're going to jump over to the quick fire questions and I know you're kind of like training a new recruiter, so this is definitely extremely relevant. But what advice would you give to a brand new recruiter that's just getting started in the industry this year?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:33:29]:
Go somewhere that's going to provide you with structure and provide you with the ability to understand and learn what things are going to be successful and how to do more and more of that. It could be going to a big firm that's systemized and starting out there or it's finding a mentor and stuff. Right. Like, I've been that recruiting since like 1999 and I would still consider myself an intermediate because, you know, there's so much that I don't know and I'm constantly asking questions and constantly trying these things. Right. Some good, some bad. But I mean, it's. It's a case of always learn all the people you chasing, how they communicate and where they communicate and be mindful of, a, how you're going to get the most out of your tire and b, secondly, how you're going to survive the negative aspects of this job so that you can continue to do it for an extended period of time.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:34]:
All that same question, but for people that have been around the block, like, what advice would you give to them for the recruiters that have been in the game for a while?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:34:41]:
You know what, and this is something I've learned. So for the longest time I was. I was naive, but I thought that I shouldn't talk to other recruiters because they're my competition. Right. And I did connect with recruiters. I didn't listen to what other people were doing. I just, you know, I used to always joke that I'm like, I'm just going to live in the and if you need to know me, you're going to know me type of. Right.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:35:04]:
That is the most naive, ridiculous thought process ever. Right. And I wish someone had a kick me in the head ten years. Talk to other recruiters, leverage other people and then be thankful for that. Just network and understand that. What is that saying? That high tide, you rise all books. I think that's the key, is to focus on continuing, evolving, improving and commiserating with your peers.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:42]:
Great advice. I mean, it's Facebook groups is what really started it for me. Just like opening my eyes to what's out there and what other people are doing. And that's had a huge impact on.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:35:50]:
Like, our bottom line and just, you.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:52]:
Know, the conversations I have on the podcast, I'm like, oh dang, that's a great idea. I'd never even thought about that.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:35:59]:
And it's interesting because that's, that's what I've enjoyed a lot about your podcast, too, right? Is you've had people that I know, like, I'm either connected to them on LinkedIn or Facebook and you know them, but you don't know their story, right? So then you're like, you get to listen to them and listen to their stories. And, you know, when you have a good day, you've got someone to celebrate with. And when you have a bad day, you have someone that says, oh yeah, that happened to me last week, right? And then this week here I am moving forward, right? So I definitely say that, you know, having unofficial colleagues is a great way.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:36]:
Is there a book that has had a huge impact on your career?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:36:40]:
So, you know, it's funny, like I read so much during the day online and journals and stuff like that that I, when I read a book, it's usually spined off, right. I did read Mitch album's Tuesdays with Maureen and it had more of a spiritual effect on me than anything else. And it's kind of happy around the same time I decided to start working myself, right. Was getting that. No shit. Take control of your time, take control of your life and enjoy it, right? Because we don't know how long it's going to happen.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:15]:
What kind of helped you make that jump? That's awesome. Do you have a favorite rec tech tool that you love at the moment?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:37:24]:
You know, this is a tough one, Alan. I've been using source whale a lot for the last couple of years and I just decided to use relay instead of paying for crelate and paying for source whale for receipt message sequencing. So that's kind of been something I played a lot with. I love source whale. I think it's a great tool. Physicians never respond to the first email, so you need to email them three to five times in order to get a response. So it's a necessity. Sociomonial, I don't even know how to say it.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:38:05]:
Socialmonials is something I picked up on appsumo because of DSP, I think. Aaron, I love it. Like I've been using it to manage all my posts. It has an AI function. It builds your Persona and then you can click on this AI function that gives you prompts to then use in chat GPT to do stuff. So I've been using it for proposals as well as blog posts. And everything else that's been really, really good. And they started playing out play because of rich Rosen.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:38:38]:
So we'll see. It looks pretty cool. So yeah, I have training on Tuesday. Nice. When it's taught. Here we go. Probably touch some shit posted. Those are kind of the ones that I'm playing with the most right now.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:38:51]:
Okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:52]:
What do you think has been a huge part of your own personal success?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:38:56]:
You know what? I am a simple human being, right? Like I just, I enjoy talking to people. I enjoy, I have curiosity about what people do, right? I'm the annoying guy in the elevator that asks you what you do for a living just because I'm interested, right? So curiosity I think is the biggest thing and then I have to balance my excitement and curiosity, right? Like I get, I get a search, I get excited. I want to jump in it right away. Sometimes I need to, excuse me, use that curiosity to ask more and talk about it more before jumping right in. But curiosity is the big thing and finding. I love recruiting physician that I love recruiting executive because I believe they're both individuals, right. And there's a community in Ontario where I live where I help them recreate two families physicians. Right.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:39:52]:
So what's going to happen is when those, each of those family physicians rosters patients, well, no, probably 3000 to 4000 people are going to have a family physician because of the recruiting idea. So 3000 people will have a doctor to take care of them because of the work I did. So that's pretty cool, right? And I think that's the finding an intention is the work you do and the curiosity, I think that's powerful.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:23]:
That's always the best recruiters have a way and a purpose with what they do and they look at it that way, like, you know, there are going to be 3000 families that don't have a physician if it isn't for the work that I'm doing as a recruiter, it's the bigger picture. Looking is so powerful, Kevin, when it comes down to you personally and you've seen a lot in the recruiting game, you got a chance to ever sit down with yourself, like back in the day, like you're pretending you're sitting down with yourself for a cup of coffee. It's your first few weeks in recruiting. What would you tell yourself for advice?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:41:03]:
That's who. There's some days where I tell myself to get a real job. There's other days I think where it would be study the game more. Right? Like study the craft and focus on continual improvement. Right. I think I got to the point where I thought I knew what I was doing too early and stopped learning, right. So I think I would have said to myself like, just keep investing your time and energy into learning your craft because like, you mean, I remember being able to years ago making up placements one month to paying off my wifes student loans in a single check, right? So imagine taking someone from, you know, I think she had seven years left of payments and this job allowed me to pay that off. Right.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:41:56]:
You know, I bought my father a car for cash. So you read, like, I think you, I think there's so much cool stuff that happens from this, being in this job, in this, in this lifestyle. I think that just keep studying your craft, keep, keep, find the good people and then expose your, be exposed to the good people as much as possible. Right. And that's, thats where the Facebook groups DSPs and Neil Levinson and Rich Rosen, whos probably one of the nicest guys youll ever meet, and then yourself, I think its just surrounding yourself with those people that are continually, continually wanting to brew and go from there because even at 20 years or no, 25 years in May, I still find there's tons of things to do. Right. I bought, I bought David Perry's executive search for executive search guy today. Right? So yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to read it because I just saw it.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:42:59]:
And then Steve Finkel was on there retreaters and boxing short podcast. So I bought his book. Right. So just invest in yourself. Investing yourself. Invest in yourself. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:13]:
Well, Kevin, is there anything else that you would love to share with the listeners before I let you go?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:43:17]:
You know what? I think five people, chief, celebrate your successes with. At one point last year, I was like, this is terrible. I'm going to go Uber eats or something. And then I go, I'd read with my accountant, find out I made a lot of money last year and realized that, hey, hang on a sec. Why am I limiting about how bad this is when, you know, when I, when I read all kinds of money right now, the problem is I also got a tax bill for $120,000. Right. Thank you, canadian government. But you know, it is what it is.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:43:53]:
Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:54]:
And for the listeners, if they want to follow Lily, Hugh, what's the best way to do that?

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:43:57]:
You know what, connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm on, I'm on X Capital Kevin. JD, sorry, capital k, underscore Kirkpatrick on there. But LinkedIn's the best you can find me on you bell there. And if you want to tell me my posts are idiotic. Please do, because I love that. And let's just share advice. I love sharing advice.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:44:20]:
Right? Like, it's my favorite thing to do. Mentoring and sharing advice is. Is how we all grow. It's awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:27]:
Well, Kevin, I just want to say thank you much for coming on, talking about the ins and outs of the medical guild. If you're listening, I would highly, highly recommend following Kevin and seeing what he's doing with these LinkedIn lives. Like, follow him, check a few of them out, because how awesome would it be for every time you go live on LinkedIn, you picked up a new candidate for a new client. It's the power of branding, and Kevin's really been working on figuring that out. So, Kevin, thank you so much for coming to the podcast. For the listeners, make 2024 your absolute best year yet. Let's go, guys.

Kevin Kirkpatrick [00:44:59]:
All right.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:59]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.