How To Become The Recruiter AI Recommends

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
At the end of the day, every recruiter wants 3 things: more clients, better candidates, and fewer headaches. That's exactly what Recruiters Websites will help you achieve. They build high-performing websites, create marketing consistency, and boost your visibility so you can focus on what you do best— recruiting. When your brand shows up first where it matters most, growth gets a whole lot easier. Ready to scale your desk and dominate your niche? Mention Elite Recruiter and get 10% off any new service at recruiterswebsites.com. Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast.

Steve Gipson [00:00:31]:
It's not who's the best, it's who's the most visible, right? I guarantee that there are recruiters that are terrible recruiters that are getting reps at job orders they shouldn't be getting reps at because they're more visible than some of the better recruiters that are out there.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:45]:
Do you think there's gonna be a bigger gap over the next 2 years between people that start doing something like this now?

Steve Gipson [00:00:50]:
Yeah, I think the gap's already there. If, if it already exists, it's just gonna get wider. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Meno. Where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:13]:
Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas, the AI-first recruitment platform built for modern agencies. It doesn't only track resumes and calls, it remembers everything— every email, every interview, every conversation— instantly searchable. Always available. And now it's entering a whole new era. With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With Magic Search, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply looking for keywords.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:39]:
Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With Opportunities, you can track, manage, and grow client relationships powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow. Need insights? Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. No admin, no silos, no lost info, nothing but faster shortlists, better hires, and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue. Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting. Don't miss the future of recruitment.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:13]:
Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer at recruitwithatlas.com. I am excited about this episode because this is something that I personally will say that I have spent Zero time on. I've spent zero effort. I truly believe as a recruiter, my work should speak for itself. And it's one of the challenges that like, like so many other recruiters that I know of, we are all in the same boat. We want our work. We want the conversations that we have. We want the placements to speak for ourselves.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:46]:
But here's the thing. Like I was sitting in the room at the Pinnacle Society conference and over the week I was just counting up the numbers when these people started talking about, oh yeah, inbound this because of SEO, inbound this because of SEO. There's about $1 million in placement fees. And when I say this, they still had to do the work, but over $1 million in placement fees that came in inbound to people's websites that they weren't out there actively chasing. So I had to grab one of the experts in this space to sit down and be like, what the F is going on? And like, why have I personally been like, Oh yeah, like, eh, I don't need to do that. My work will speak for itself. My LinkedIn presence will bring me all the business, but I'm probably missing out on even more money. So before we, we dive in, I gotta ask you this.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:36]:
From what you've seen, I like right now there's a hiring manager popping into ChatGPT or Claude and typing in, hey, I'm looking for an accounting recruiter near me. Or I'm looking for a tech recruiter near me. Is somebody that should be popping up in there because they're the actual best recruiter in the space not popping up in there, but somebody else is that they just figured out how to work the system properly?

Steve Gipson [00:04:01]:
Yeah, 100%. It's not who's the best, it's who's the most visible, right? I guarantee that there are recruiters that are terrible recruiters that are getting reps at job orders they shouldn't be getting reps at because they're more visible than some of the better recruiters that are out there.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:16]:
I wanna dig into this 'cause you mentioned this at the Pinnacle Society meeting when we were sitting there just chatting. You said right now we are in the biggest visibility gold rush that you have seen in 10 years. What the hell do you mean by that?

Steve Gipson [00:04:31]:
Yeah, so with the inception of AI, right, and that becoming prevalent and be a part of everything that we do, all those different models and all those different LLMs and systems that we use every single day are gathering and aggregating information in different ways than just the search engines used to do. And even the search engines play into this as well through things like their AI snippets and Perplexity becoming a search engine within that platform, in those platforms. But we have an opportunity to control more of the narrative about who we are as a search firm more than ever because we can influence those models. We can create content around specific topics and specific offerings that we have. We can then be the ones to use those models to be able to create that wealth of information and wealth of knowledge that's there. And then that's what they're picking up to be able to give the answers back to the users that are searching for an accounting recruiter in St. Louis, Missouri, or whatever search that they're typing in to find a service that they need. And so by having more availability to create that content, more availability for that content to be seen and found in different ways, the people that are taking advantage of this, the firms, whether they're a Korn Ferry or whether they're a one-person boutique firm in Southeast Missouri, whatever it is that they are, has an opportunity to influence where they show up in those results more than they ever have in the last 10 years or so with the way that SEO has changed and evolved and adapted into AIO, AEO, GEO, and those different tactics.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:54]:
So even 18 months ago, like, were you seeing this kind of like visibility uptick?

Steve Gipson [00:06:00]:
I would say 18 months ago, yes, we were. I mean, I would say that we were seeing the opportunity already exist. It's just, I think it's now, it's, it's just more, I think it's, it's more accessible because I think the technology has caught up to a way that we as, as individuals can create that content and create that depth that needs to be there. We can research things more succinctly. We can have more knowledge than we've ever had, and then we can create more consistencies if we're willing to put in the time and believe that it actually could work and actually be something that we can reap those benefits from. So it's just a matter of whether it was 18 months ago. I, I think really the, the opportunity started really existing about in this kind of AIO world and AI optimization world, probably 3 years ago when it first started to come out, it just tweaked or kind of evolved SEO in a little bit different direction than it previously was. It's more specific now.

Steve Gipson [00:06:51]:
It's more intentional than it ever has been. And by creating that depth of content around that intentional keywords or key phrases or topics that we serve, it now allows us to be able to be that answer. When someone's looking.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:04]:
So we're gonna dig back into this number a little bit, a little later on the podcast. But one of your clients, you were telling me before we got rocking and rolling, this one client has already billed $404,000 from inbound business.

Steve Gipson [00:07:20]:
Yeah. Yeah. I had to text her 'cause it, it updates like daily, right? 'Cause they get 20 to 30 leads a month on their website from SEO, AIO type searches where people are coming to their website, looking for something that they do, that particular service that they provide. They have no idea who they are because it is a 2-person recruiting firm. So a 2-person recruiting firm doesn't have the bandwidth to create the visibility that they need to make a massive impact within their market, right? That's where, uh, individuals like, uh, again, more established larger firms have maybe a little bit better engine that they can run to create more brand awareness. They have more resources to spend to create that visibility in that regard. So when someone's looking for Their company, they would type in their name because they're aware of who they are. Well, firms that don't have that, but have the opportunity to be able to create content that influences their search visibility when someone's looking for a government contracting recruiter, a government contract staffing firm, something along those lines, then you come up in those results, even though they don't know who you are, but they are relevant to what they're looking for, then they come and find you.

Steve Gipson [00:08:22]:
That's what we're seeing with this client. So yeah, roughly a little over $400,000. Came in through the website, initial touches. They had to still vet the client. They had to sell them on their fee agreement. They still had to go through the process, all the things that they had to do, you have to do as a recruiter. This doesn't replace being a good recruiter. That's why where there's bad recruiters that are coming up in those results that aren't maybe as great, let's not say bad, maybe they're not as great as they should be, right? They haven't listened to as much Ben Minna's podcast to get all the tips that they need to be able to go through and really optimize their desk in the right ways.

Steve Gipson [00:08:57]:
They haven't picked up the latest Steve Finkel book that people understand how to be able to overcome objections. So they're missing out on those things. And so they're not as great as others may be, but they're getting those reps, they're getting those opportunities and they're failing probably. And then that's probably souring that client's opportunity or mindset on recruiters. So really it's our obligation as great recruiters to be able to wanna be visible so we don't tarnish the industry by the, all these Not as great recruiters coming up and being visible in those results.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:27]:
Let's take a few steps back. I know you're the website guy, but for everybody listening, a quick 30-second self-introduction.

Steve Gipson [00:09:34]:
Yeah. Okay. I've been in the industry for over 16 years. Uh, grew up in it, come from a family of recruiters. So just, I mean, I was there at the table listening to dad close deals. Uh, he worked from home, so we're summer break, we're walking around listening to him. All the time, you know, speak about, speak to candidates, speak to clients. So it just kind of knew that I was gonna be in the industry, just kind of what I did.

Steve Gipson [00:09:56]:
So graduated college, went straight into working with a staffing agency outta St. Louis, came back, started working for dad's firm, um, about 2 years later, um, within direct hire within the, actually the property and casualty insurance industry. So did that for 7 years. Um, my brother Jeff Gibson, our founder and CEO, was working with, in that role as well. Spent 9 years doing that, built our firm's website. Different members of different associations started reaching out to us asking us who did it. He started moonlighting doing that on his own time. Got to the point where he was turning away business and he said, you know what? I like doing this better than I like recruiting.

Steve Gipson [00:10:27]:
I'm gonna do this full-time. And so he opened up Recruiters Websites, brought me on board and recruited me out of the recruiting business of his last placement and to help with a biz dev perspective. And so Recruiters Websites then started out doing websites, custom website design and development, moving into a full-service marketing agency over the last, we're gonna be on our 14th year in December. Uh, we've worked with over 1,000 firms and agencies across all different industries, specialties, as large as 300+ recruiters down to the guy in his basement in Wichita, Kansas, right? So that's what we do. So we help from content creation, website design, SEO services, just API integrations, connecting the dots between automation processes, marketing strategy. Just if a firm needs it and us, we try to do our best to fit into that puzzle.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:14]:
I gotta ask, was your dad pissed that 2 of his sons left the company?

Steve Gipson [00:11:19]:
Nah, he's probably happy about it. He said, get, get us outta the way, right? His dad's kind of sane on it. He was, this is gonna be sappy, right? But that's what dads are sometimes. So as soon as we kind of graduated school, my, so Amy, my sister, and my brother Jeff, they came on board pretty quick after college. And so dad immediately went from being a dad to being a boss. And then I came on a little bit later that I'm a little bit younger. And then I went off and did my own staffing firm, worked for the staffing firm myself outside of dad's organization. And so, but even that coming on board, he never got to be, his whole thing is he never got to be a dad.

Steve Gipson [00:11:52]:
Or like that next stage of a dad. You went from being the parent that you lord over your kids and make sure they turn out to be decent adults to being their boss and never getting to be their friend. Right. And so, so I think he was kind of relieved in some ways because now he could just be less of a boss and more of a, more of a, a friend in our adult life. So I think he was kind of cool with it.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:13]:
Steve, you didn't hit your KPIs, man.

Steve Gipson [00:12:15]:
Come on. Well, there's nothing worse than being trained by your dad. I can promise you that. He's on the other line. I'm gonna poke fun on him real quick if you don't mind. So as a kid, I told you dad was at home working, right? This is one of my favorite stories. And as I saw, I'm walking around, I'm 13 years old, listening to dad tell a, uh, talk to a candidate and On, on my side of the phone, Dad's cracking up, right? He's laughing, he's telling jokes. I'm like, man, Dad is absolutely killing it.

Steve Gipson [00:12:40]:
He is just hilarious. And these guys are eating it up. And so I had this really great picture of Dad's just this hilarious guy. And then so fast forward now to when I'm training as a recruiter underneath Dad, I'm listening to his phone calls. Part of what we did, we sat in the pit. He had me on the other line tapped in so I could hear everything he was doing. And he's in there and he's talking to a candidate or client, whatever it was, and he's telling a joke. And all of a sudden Dad is cracking up.

Steve Gipson [00:13:02]:
He's laughing hard, but the guy on the other side wasn't laughing at all. And so, so, Cyrus, I realized maybe Dad's not quite as funny as I thought he was. He just thinks he's as funny as he thinks he is. So my, my bubble was burst a little bit about, about Dad's, Dad's sense of humor.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:22]:
So sitting in that recruiting chair. Yeah. You could still be recruiting today, but like, what do you see that made you think that the problem wasn't recruiting? It was just nobody could find the best recruiter.

Steve Gipson [00:13:32]:
Yeah, I could still be recruiting today. This wasn't an, it wasn't an intentional move, um, for me, right? It just kind of happened. I think it's like how recruiters become recruiters. You know, every recruiter has a story about, well, I was doing this and that, and then I just kind of fell into recruiting. I have no idea what it was. It just kind of worked and it just kind of did it. So on the flip side of that, I think this business for us, from a website perspective and content creation and marketing, we kind of just fell into it. I was a PR major in college, went through, so I have a communications degree.

Steve Gipson [00:14:00]:
So it's not like Incredibly far from just kind of my background and who I am. But never in a million years would I have thought that this would have been something that, that we would be doing. And I think the perspective that it changes our mindset, because marketing companies think like marketing companies, marketers think like marketers first, and then they adapt to their clients. We think like recruiters first. My whole mindset, everything that we've ever done, anything that we've established is, well, how does this affect the desk of a recruiter? How does this impact them? And then we apply marketing principles and strategy to that. And so it's given us a unique perspective in the way that we've kind of worked with our clients and developed into that. But it definitely wasn't planned. Frankly, it's like anything else, right? Do we, do we expect it to work? I, I, I don't know.

Steve Gipson [00:14:42]:
You know, 13 years down the road as we've been doing this, did I think that this would be something that I'd still be doing as we were trying to figure it out, learn how to, to make that impact? No way. Not in a million years. I had a friend of mine, uh, I was talking to one time, it's actually an older guy that was a successful businessman. We were talking to him about what we do. And so I explained to him, he goes, you're making money doing that? And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, okay. And then every year I see him, he's like, you're still doing that? Like, he's just shocked that we're still doing what we've been doing now for over 10 years, over 13 years. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:17]:
That's crazy. I gotta ask, like, looking at recruiters, like, you know, a lot of recruiters, you're, Always dropping awesome memes and always just hanging out at every conference. What's the percentage of recruiters that you think that don't have an optimized website?

Steve Gipson [00:15:29]:
All of them except my clients. No, no, no. Uh, it's a fair amount, man. Our industry is notoriously backwards when it comes to websites, marketing efforts, and the visibility and optimizing and just being active in that world of business development. I think it comes from a lot about how we view ourselves as hunters, right? We're headhunters. We're, we're those that are recruiting. If I don't kill it myself from per se, it didn't happen. So if I'm not picking up the phone, if I'm not sending an active message, if I'm not proactively doing those things, then nothing's going to come from, or no, no, no revenue would generate or become from, from those efforts.

Steve Gipson [00:16:10]:
And so, I just think that they've never believed in it enough as a whole. generalization, of course, as a whole, to put the resources or effort or time or money into it to start seeing results from it. And so they just, they've all been lagging collectively in those regards.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:29]:
Let's start analyzing like a recruiter's website. And I'm glad that we're not pulling mine up at this very second. What do you think is this? And I like my website, Squarespace. My wife initially made it over, uh, With some champagne over The Bachelorette show.

Steve Gipson [00:16:46]:
There you go.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:48]:
What do you think is the single most expensive mistake that you see on a recruiter's website and one that's quietly costing them clients right now that they don't even know?

Steve Gipson [00:16:58]:
It's a good question. It would be the, the lack of, the lack of interest in it is costing them more money and costing them the most money versus— and, and that, that's kind of backwards way of thinking about it, I guess, but If I just set up a website to be a brochure and it just maybe talks a little bit about me and it's just kind of a, oh, Steve, it's just a business card and I'm not actively investing or putting effort into that website, then by not being there and being present when someone's looking for me, the amount of money that I'm costing myself from having those opportunities to have those conversations is huge. It's the opportunity cost that they're losing out on. It's not, you know, I think when we're having the conversations, I'm like, hey Ben, yeah, sure.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:37]:
I'm a recruiter.

Steve Gipson [00:17:38]:
You're an insurance carrier. I think you're a great fit for what we're doing. Tell you what. Go to my website, take a look and see if you're comfortable with what we do, then let's you and I connect on Friday. What time do you have available? That kind of real conversation you're having, those people probably aren't being turned off by your website. It's probably passable. It's probably good enough to get by with that kind of conversation where they're not going to be deterred. They just want to know you exist and that there's some credibility there.

Steve Gipson [00:18:00]:
Most people probably can get by with that a little bit, but it's those that then have no idea who they are that can't find them at all when they're looking. And so you're missing out on all the potential revenue or potential relationships that are coming from that visibility that could exist within that website because you only view it as a necessary evil versus an asset.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:18]:
So somebody listening to this episode with you, Steve, and they're like, okay, I need to start doing something with my website outside of maybe hiring you. But like, if somebody listening to this on their own, is there like 3 things that they can like actively do to start really being visible? And getting picked up by the searches and the AI and all the other acronyms that you were dropping earlier?

Steve Gipson [00:18:39]:
Yeah. All right. So we live in a wonderful world, right? Of things being available to us. So Squarespace, Wix, WordPress, we prefer WordPress because it is more open source. So from a developer perspective, it leaves us a lot of opportunities to do things that we need to do, but then still gives the flexibility to the end user and our clients to be able to manage those things themselves if they need to. But like a Squarespace and a Wix, they do make these things accessible for of an individual to be able to go in and build in some opportunities to be found within that website. So think about what a website's for. It's to establish credibility, demonstrate expertise, and then ideally get that person to a place of action.

Steve Gipson [00:19:14]:
And so if you have a website and it's not doing those first 2 things, then how do we do that? Not only in the eyes of the individual that we're sending there, but in the eyes of the search engines and the AI models. So create topical authority around your digs. So what is it? Who is it that I serve? If I work specifically within accounting and finance and then manufacturing, and I have a desk then for, let's say, government contracting, then I want to make sure that I have a page for each of those distinct buckets. I want to make sure that I speak directly to that audience. And I want to make sure that it contains things like titles that I fill. It contains my experience, testimonials from clients. It has credibility builders in the sense of types of clients that I've worked with. It links properly to other pages on my website that then builds that credibility from an internal linking perspective.

Steve Gipson [00:20:01]:
I want to make sure that I have FAQs that describe my expertise within that specific topic. So, why would I hire Steve Gibson's recruiting firm for my accounting and finance, for my CFO needs, whatever it would be, right? And making sure then, then I'm qualifying, building that credibility up with supporting content that is specific around that topic that's there. And so if each of those things are addressed, and then I'm creating things like blog content or resources and articles on my website that then are about those different subtopics and niches that then link to those core pages, I'm building some topical authority between that long-form content that I'm creating around, then also that topical authority that's there within that website. And so just on the core pages of your website, if you're building that, that knowledge there, that specific content around those specific verticals that you serve. And then there's a lot of things that go into how you would optimize that page properly. So if you're, if I'm a recruiter right now, I would say go Google and go look for proper on-page SEO setup. That's what you wanna look for. Tons of tools out there, Moz, SEMrush, Ahrefs, all these different platforms that publish really great content on how to do this.

Steve Gipson [00:21:09]:
Seek that out and then set up your page properly from an on-page SEO point of view based on those principles that you see. around identified keyword and key phrase, and then make sure that you have it set up for each of the audience you serve in the proper way, and then begin building out content that supports those topics and is properly linked on their website. And anybody can do that. And I think that would be something that can make a huge impact on even just the few pages that a simple recruiting website may have.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:34]:
You mentioned in the pregame, like, I love that advice and like, that's something I probably need to go do tonight. It's a whole nother story, but you also mentioned something during our pregame. About like lists, getting on lists.

Steve Gipson [00:21:48]:
Yeah, this is, this is where like AI has enhanced how you can, how you can come up in some of these results, right? Okay. So, um, listicles. If there is a directory within your industry, or if there's associations that, that you could belong to, if you're listed on their website as a part of the Accounting and Finance Recruiters Association, And then that, that you have a link there that then you're drawing from the credibility of that website around the accounting and finance recruiting discipline that then links back to you. And so it creates credibility around that specific topic that then helps aid in lifting the visibility of your website. And so getting on as many directories or lists as you can, sending out press releases is a good, cool thing you can do. So if you put, send out a press release about something newsworthy, right? You may not think it's newsworthy, but it doesn't matter. It, what it does, you send, so say I just made, say it's my 7th year in business. I'd put out a press release, say Steve Gibson's recruiting firm is celebrating its 7th year in business.

Steve Gipson [00:22:47]:
We're excited to do this. Here's a quote from Steve Gibson. Spend $300, put it out through the newswire, like a PR newswire, and then you send that out and then all of a sudden all it will take that and then syndicate it across the web. And then you have all these links that are valid, real links back to your website. That builds some credibility that it's offsite that then makes you feel like a more credible resource for that specific topic. Here's one. So directory. So yes, getting on that.

Steve Gipson [00:23:13]:
And then in relation to that, this sounds silly too, but Reddit, right? So Reddit is a great resource for being cited within AI platforms. LinkedIn's a great resource too, but Reddit is so because it's used so heavily from people looking for answers to questions. That if someone says, who is a great accounting and finance recruiter that I can be able to find a CFO? There are questions like that on Reddit, right? Go in there, have a Reddit account, answer it, answer it organically. Like, here's a search firm that I've heard of, maybe your search firm. Here's a search firm I've heard of that's a great fit for CFOs. I hear they do wonderful work. Here's a link to their website. That you'd be surprised with how much visibility that can create for your website within Some of those platforms.

Steve Gipson [00:23:58]:
So Quora, Reddit, some of those different systems like that can really be able to, and that again, that's getting listed there as answers to questions can really benefit a way that a search firm can show up in some results.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:09]:
So these lists, like the top 10 lists or top whatever lists to help get you seen by the AI, does it work if I just go create my own and be like, top 10 recruiter, putting myself at number 1?

Steve Gipson [00:24:23]:
Yeah, it does.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:24]:
Um, it does. Okay.

Steve Gipson [00:24:26]:
Yeah, no, it does. It really does. Um, I think you gotta be, you gotta be fair, right? You don't want it to be top 10 recruiter and it's all Ben Mena, Ben Mena, Ben Mena, right? The whole way down. Um, you want it to be, or your son's name after that, right? You want it to be something that is right. Yeah. Gabe, Ben, Gabe, Ben. You want it to be something that's real. So you're gonna have to list your competitors, but this is where like a website can be pretty is still powerful because you can control the narrative of your website.

Steve Gipson [00:24:53]:
That's what's cool about a website in this day that we live in. So, so many people just see it as that necessary evil, but it is that content engine that you can then use to create specific industry-specific information that you're feeding to the world, and you control that. And so if you wanna create a top 10 list of top accounting and finance recruiters in 2026, and you list Korn Ferry, you list Heidrick Struggles, you list this, and then you list Steve Gibson's recruiting firm is number 4, more boutique than Korn Ferry and Heidrick Struggles, but still as effective and more personalized. You create some sort of content around that makes you comparative to them, and then that's on your website and that becomes a potential answer that then if someone's saying, who are the best accounting and finance recruiters for in 2026, you could come up in those results or your list could be aggregated to be the answer to that specific question.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:40]:
Oh, that's wild. I've always seen like those companies like dropping like a top 10 list, top 10 podcasts. And I'm like, like, what do you, I'm like, do you even listen to anything online?

Steve Gipson [00:25:50]:
Yeah. Well, well, you see those all the time. I think one, like, yeah, I saw an industry partner put it out like top 100 recruiters, right? And they're getting then credibility built around the links that they're creating to those individual recruiters' websites of those recruiters that they're marketing or that they're putting on that list. And then you also get like that reciprocity approach, right? In a lot of ways from them. Like, so, uh, same play would be, okay, if you want to talk about the top 5, it's using accounting and finance CPA firms in Los Angeles, California, and you, let's make a bigger list. Let's make top 25 and you quote them in that and you put them and make that list for them. You're then building your credibility as an industry accounting and finance expert in Los Angeles. So that then You may get some traffic that doesn't relate to what you need within your website, but you're building topical authority and you being a credible resource in that industry.

Steve Gipson [00:26:44]:
Then you can say, hey Ben, you know, I listed your CPA firm as one of the top 25. Congratulations. Post it on LinkedIn and they're gonna be like, oh my God, I'm so flattered that you did this for me. I just love to be recognized. And then they get so excited and they're like, well, who do I need if I need to find another CPA? They call you and recruit with you.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:01]:
I'm going to switch gears a little bit, and this is for anybody that's listening right now that is doing the website themselves. I know we talked about creating content and all sorts of different things to help gain the authority, but let's break it down to just the homepage. What is important for a recruiter's just homepage?

Steve Gipson [00:27:18]:
Yeah. So make it a summary of the rest of the website. That's the first thing that I would do. So a homepage in itself is not a great SEO page, right? In a lot of ways, because it does need to be a summary. It's trying to get someone onto your website or someone that lands on your website to other pages that, that explain more detail and more depth of what you do. So make sure that it summarizes the rest of the website, has appropriate links to those different expertises that you have. It's able to give them a good overview of who you are, the credibility you have. So I would do things, that's where I would put client logos.

Steve Gipson [00:27:49]:
I'd put testimonials. I'd make sure I have a differentiation of a statement of who we are and what it is that we do. This is where content is really important and understanding what you bring to the table. Because so many firms are, I'm a recruiter and we're unique. And I said, well, why are you unique, Ben? Well, we vet all, you know, candidates. We're not a resume factory and we just send, you know, the most relevant candidates that are there, really one or two. And, you know, we're really an advocate for our client and we're, you know, we're very selective.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:17]:
Okay.

Steve Gipson [00:28:17]:
So is every other recruiting firm that I've ever spoken to. Or Steve, we're really fast and we have a great fill placement, fill of placement, send out the placement ratio. Okay, so does every recruiter that I've ever spoken to. They do too. So that's where that, that content and that messaging is really important to differentiate yourself. Having proper then calls to action to get them to a place to be able to reach out through your website. But that's really what should be on a homepage is that summary, credibility builders, calls to action for the different types of expertises that you have, and making sure they have a good understanding if they don't wanna dive in any deeper to your website than that homepage.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:53]:
I'm gonna switch gears before I ask the next question. You mentioned something that is so true, like we all have our, what we think is our expertise. How often do you have to spend time with somebody and really just actually start dialing down and not, and get past the fluff that everybody else says?

Steve Gipson [00:29:12]:
Yeah, it's hard. I mean, it really is. And it's actually harder than it's ever been, which is interesting, right? So you would think It would be easier as we've all been pumped with podcast after podcast of Simon Sinek, of the why before the what, and all the things that we, you know, we, we feed on now. But what has happened and what we've seen in the last couple, about a year, is that everyone is using ChatGPT to create these answers for them. So we send out a questionnaire. We always ask clients kind of tell us about themselves and we have that conversation. Those questionnaires now are littered. with just all AI responses.

Steve Gipson [00:29:48]:
And AI is coming up with the same answers for every firm. And getting someone to take the time to really think about what it is that they do is harder than it's ever been within our processes, which is really interesting. So my advice to anyone in the industry right now would be stop using ChatGPT or Claude or whatever system you use to define who you are. Let's use it to automate some processes, create some flexibility and some streamlines and things that we're doing for other aspects of content creation, things like that. But when it comes to defining who I am as a firm, really think about that. Really let that come from your own mind and who you are. And I think that the results then will come out much better than they would be if it's just ChatGPT generic speak about what a recruiting firm does.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:34]:
When you're working with these clients and you actually get to the real definition, like, what does that look like? Do you have some examples of where somebody went from Claude, speak to, okay, I've actually sat down and like narrowed it down and this is what I do to give value.

Steve Gipson [00:30:49]:
Yeah, I think so. I think a lot of it depends on how a client engages us too. Like we have a lot of different ways that we can do this. If a client just wants to be more generic or to have something that is able to build visibility, there is a level of that. So an example of a client that we've worked with recently is they are a healthcare recruiting firm. And their biggest statement on their website is that we solve healthcare's talent challenge, right? And then as I scroll down, then it talks about what those challenges are. It talks about how they're different within solving those challenges. It gives more specifics to actually building credibility about how they are solving those problems and details that then surround that versus just stating something and then not backing it up.

Steve Gipson [00:31:29]:
And I think that's the main thing that we want to think about. Okay, so maybe you are the fastest recruiter with the best Send out the placement ratio. But how and why? And why does it relate to me? And how does it solve my problem as an end user, as the someone that is using your services? Because ultimately, I don't care about, in a lot of ways, how great you are. I just care about how you can provide me with the solutions or a candidate that I need to be able to further my organization. So thinking of it from more from that mindset versus of what I do, how I work and how I provide this process of more about What it is that we're able to do for you, and then backing that up with case studies, with stories, with real-life proof of testimonials. Those are the things that carry a lot more weight than just me, and this is what we do.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:12]:
For those that are DIY website guys, like many recruiters out there, I'm guessing probably a good half people have like a Wix or Squarespace or something. Can you actually rank in searches with those?

Steve Gipson [00:32:25]:
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. A search engine is no respecters of person. It doesn't care if I did it for you or if you did it yourself. All it does is it cares that it has the information that it needs to provide the most relevant answer in that platform to be able to make sure that user gets what they need and then continually uses their platform to be able to search and look for that information. Because the whole premise of this, right? So let's just use Google as an example. Why is search engine optimization Why does that even exist? Why do they give us the opportunity to do this? It's about money, right? That's ultimately what all this is about.

Steve Gipson [00:33:03]:
So Google wants to be the resource for when— or the, the go-to search engine when someone's looking to get a question answered or find a particular product or service. The more relevant information they have, the more specific content they have that they can return as a result that's accurate, the more then people will use it. The more people that use it, they can go then to their advertisers and say, listen, We have the most accurate information, the most users because of that accurate information. So you wanna advertise on us because we're able to get you in front of the right audience and the biggest audience. And so that allows them to sell $152 billion in ads each year with a B, $150 billion in ads. And probably, it's probably more than that now each year. And so by letting us as individuals or companies create the right structure at our website, they're giving us the rules essentially that we follow. to be able to create that visibility on our website, to return those most accurate results.

Steve Gipson [00:33:55]:
It allows them then to make a lot more revenue from us doing that. And so that's ultimately what it's all about. Um, yes, anybody can rank as long as they're following best SEO practices and consistently building up that website in the right ways to create that visibility and return the right results to those different engines.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:14]:
Well, another reason why I actually want to sit down with you is because I've also been seeing these doom and gloom articles popping up on Instagram and stuff like that saying Google just killed SEO or they killed search. Like, for those that have seen the, the popups and talking about that, like, what actually happened?

Steve Gipson [00:34:33]:
Yeah, it didn't kill anything. It just helped it evolve, right? It just helped it grow. To me, it actually made it more powerful. So when you look at like, oh, it's killed SEO, The same things that we were doing 5, 6—

Benjamin Mena [00:34:47]:
Explain what Google just did and then, then go into that.

Steve Gipson [00:34:50]:
Yeah. Okay. So what Google did, it just updated the way that it's, it's pulling information. So like you see the AI snippet now, right? So no longer is it just returning a list of 10 results or, you know, 100 results for you to look through, um, with 10 being 10 per page. But now it's taking the summary of the content from those different results and bringing it into an AI snippet at the top. For then it's aggregating that for you and answering your questions based off of the information that it's gathering from those websites. So this is why it didn't kill SEO. It's because the information that it's using is still the information from those websites.

Steve Gipson [00:35:25]:
So it's still providing the details there from the information that's been provided from that website that it's searching from. It just makes it easier for that end user to find the answer that they had. But think about our world. So if I'm a client and I'm looking for, so how do I find a candidate for my business? And it's going to return some result. Well, some people post on Indeed, some people post on ZipRecruiter. Other effective ways are that they use recruiters and recruitment agencies. I'm like, oh, I've never thought about a recruiter. Who are some recruiters in the accounting and finance industry? And then it's going to pull up a list of, well, Steve Gibson's recruiting firm, Ben Minna, and then Gabe Minna.

Steve Gipson [00:35:57]:
They're all great recruiters. And I'm going to say, okay, great. From that list, I'm not going to make my decision on who I'm gonna use right there. I'm going to then, okay, recruiter really makes sense. I'm gonna click on still one of those links and drive myself to the website and then view what it is that Steve, Gabe, or Ben does, and then make my decision from there and who I wanna call. And so it doesn't negate the fact that we're coming up in those results. It just changes in the way that we come up in those results. Does that make sense?

Benjamin Mena [00:36:25]:
Makes sense. You know, I just saw like those articles pop up like, it's dead, it's dead. And I'm like, I don't feel like it's dead. I just—

Steve Gipson [00:36:32]:
Well, and the way that it's refined it, right? The way that it's helped it evolve is that it's wanting us to be more specific now. So it's wanting us to give more specific answers to those topical authority and topics that we're trying to address. So that's where it's actually made it more opportunity for us, because then if I say who, you know, that listicle that we talked about, we're creating that, you know, top 10 recruiters in 2026 for accounting and finance. I can create content then that is actually specific around top recruiters in 2026. And that then becomes the potential answer for that. And so, whereas maybe that wasn't quite as relevant as a post or way that, that search engines would've aggregated that information, but now I can come up in that AI snippet or on the ChatGPT model or whatever LLM I'm using as that specific answer and reference for that. And so we have to be a little bit more intentional. We have to be a little bit more specific.

Steve Gipson [00:37:25]:
And create more, I, I would think topic pillars and be able to, be able to, to really flesh out a, a authority on a specific expertise. But that's not a bad thing. It just means that we have more opportunity within that world to do what we need to do. And it just changes. So it's, it, and clients that were optimizing for SEO 10 years ago, all those things that they still did that followed the best, the best on-page practices. So meta titles, meta descriptions, H1 tags. The page set up around specific keywords and key phrases, they are in a much better position to rank today in the AI models than someone that is just getting started on all of this. So it's taken those things that they've done and now they're in a much better position than a lot of the industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:06]:
I want to talk about your client that's done, as of the recording of this, June 3rd, $404,000 of inbound stuff that has been closed. What is some of the stuff that they're doing behind the scenes, like, or you guys have been doing behind the scenes to even set that up for what is going to be an awesome year?

Steve Gipson [00:38:28]:
Yeah, it's going to be a great year. And so she was actually a guest of yours. And so this is a combination again of legacy being active in SEO efforts before today, and then continuing in those efforts and increasing more expertise and more topical authority within their industry. And so there's pages around, uh, long-tail keywords and key phrases. So accounting recruiters in St. Louis, accounting recruiters in Kansas City, accounting recruiters in Missouri. So you have an accounting recruiters in Missouri page that's specific to that location. And you can't just build these all willy-nilly.

Steve Gipson [00:38:59]:
You have to be done around a specific structure and done properly. But then I link together that St. Louis page links back to the Missouri page. Kansas City links back to the Missouri page. And it builds topical authority around my expertise of accounting and finance recruiting in Missouri. And I take that same concept and I do that for every city, every state, anything I can think of, all the different disciplines that I serve, CFO recruiters, all the different kind of sub-niches in that industry, tax, mergers and acquisitions, those kinds of things, and build that out to a depth that creates just a wide net that can be cast for me to be found no matter what someone's looking for when it comes to accounting and finance. recruiting firm. And so by being consistent in that and creating that depth and then also creating articles and long-form content that helps support that, that's essentially what they're doing is that it's allowed them to be able then to come up in the results and be visible on all platforms.

Steve Gipson [00:39:54]:
Now, caveat to this, like if this was an infomercial, right? And I'm, you know, it's flashing lights, results may vary kind of thing, right? It took them time. This is, again, this is them Planting that tree 7, 8 years ago and some of those fundamental and foundational SEO things that were there that then is allowing them to really hit this kind of new era in a huge way. And so the best time to plant a tree, right, is 20 years ago. Second best time is today, like that kind of concept. So you have to do it now. You have to find time to make this happen, whether it's yourself doing it or somebody doing it for you, it doesn't matter. But if you can start doing some of those simple things and creating that depth and that content on your website, then it's going to allow you to be in the position to be visible and successful no matter what changes or what happens based off of these different algorithms and systems that we use. But that's what they're doing.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:46]:
This might be more of like a PR question, but because you have actually been around so many top billers across the years, what are some of the things that Top billers are doing with a web presence that average billers don't even think about?

Steve Gipson [00:41:04]:
I don't think it's necessarily massive differences other than they're actually investing in it, right? I think that's the biggest thing. They're using it from beyond just it being a necessary evil. And I don't think in order to be a big biller, you have to have the perfect website. And I know it sounds maybe counterintuitive, right? You can be a big biller without a great marketing presence. I know some, I know a ton of recruiters that still are the classic pound the phones, dial, reach out, and they're driving all that business and they bill over $1 million plus a year. And so I don't think having a great presence or online digital presence makes you a great recruiter. You gotta be a great recruiter despite that. But what great recruiters are doing that are using those platforms to the fullest extent is that they are actually investing in those platforms.

Steve Gipson [00:41:53]:
They're creating that visibility there. They create automation with it. So, you know, they're posting things like, for example, so a lot of these great recruiters use that do a lot of MPC marketing, right? So they're marketing the most placeable candidates to their different clients. And whereas they were doing that kind of a one-to-one model before, we've integrated those websites with their ATS, whether, you know, a Crelate, Tracker, Bullhorn, whatever it may be. And we're pulling those candidate profiles that are confidential to their website and creating a featured candidate list. on their website that now they can send an email to and send their clients to, to review those, those NPCs or featured candidates they have available to say, I want to learn more about this person. I want to know more about that person. And it becomes then a tool from a client development perspective versus just, again, a necessary evil where people are going there, they get information.

Steve Gipson [00:42:41]:
It's interactive in that way. So they're doing that. They're using it within their newsletters. They even beyond just the NPCs, They're using it to demonstrate expertise. If I'm creating content that then is not only from an SEO point of view, but then is something that I can send to a client and say, I know about your industry. I actually know about your industry almost as much as you do. And I know 10 times more about hiring in your industry than you do. And here's an article to prove it.

Steve Gipson [00:43:10]:
Here's a snippet of it. Come back and read it on my website. They're using again to build that credibility and stay in front and stay top of mind when the timing is right for those clients. A lot of recruiters aren't doing that. They have no proactive outreach for through their, and then they're not using their website to send those people back to demonstrate that expertise through content that they're creating. So automating it, building visibility on it, investing in it, creating content to demonstrate expertise on it, and then sending people to that content. I think that's probably what separates the great recruiters that are getting the more out of their website than those that aren't.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:45]:
Do you think there's going to be a bigger gap over the next 2 years between people that start doing something like this now? Or in people that don't?

Steve Gipson [00:43:52]:
Yeah, I think the gap's already there. If it already exists, it's just gonna get wider. I think it's just going to create more of a depth between those that are actively building and using those platforms and getting the most out of them versus those that are not. It's like the same discussion of, you know, will AI make the recruiters using AI in today's age and adapting to that, are they gonna be in a much better position to, or is it gonna create a bigger gap between them and those that aren't using AI right now? And I think it's just that gap's gonna get wider. Right now it's smaller, right? Because you can still get by without using those efficiencies and some of those processes and those softwares that some are using. But as more and more become adapted to that and becomes integrated into what they do, those that still don't adapt to that will get further and further behind. And I think the same thing from a, from a visibility perspective and even any digital platform. I think those that are not adapting to that and using it and stay, stay where they are.

Steve Gipson [00:44:44]:
will eventually get further and further behind. And I mean, there's that whole idea and concept of if you're not moving forward, you're not standing still. An object is in motion, whether it's going forward or whether it's going backwards. It's not going to stay where it's at. It's going to either devolve or evolve.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:01]:
I know that there's so many things that you've talked about that you could be doing, and that might be the reason why so many people don't go off and go do it themselves. But for those listening, if they could take one action this week, only one, what would you tell them to do?

Steve Gipson [00:45:16]:
If I could do one thing on my— this week to impact my website and, and make an impact on my digital presence, I would go and I would set up the core pages on my website with proper foundational on-page setup. That's what I would do. I would look up the best practice for that. I would then, whatever platform I use, I would Google on how to add those keywords and key phrases that I need to rank for and what that means. And I would make sure that my meta title, my meta description, and my H1 headings have a specific keyword and key phrase that I'm trying to come up for in those results. So if I'm an accounting and finance recruiter using that example, if I have one page on my website that speaks to my expertise of accounting, I would optimize that page for accounting recruiters. The broad keyword and key phrase, you're not going to come up for it. You're not going to see a major impact from it.

Steve Gipson [00:46:03]:
today, but at least then you have those core pages set up in a way that can begin to be indexed for the right topic in the right industries that you serve.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:12]:
We've covered a lot. Before we jump over to the quickfire questions, is there anything else that you want to go deeper on or a question I should have asked you?

Steve Gipson [00:46:18]:
No, I don't think so. I mean, it's just people just need to like just stop talking about it. Just do it. I don't even have to be the one to do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:25]:
Just do it.

Steve Gipson [00:46:26]:
Just do it yourself. I don't, you know what I mean? It's just, it's I feel like it's probably what people in like the, like personal trainers feel like. It's like, man, I told you just like stop eating that and just like go walk. And now you're 400 pounds and you're not listening to me. Just walk a little bit. And so it's the same thing with your visibility, your website. Just go out there and start doing the little things you need to do. Don't feel like you gotta be an expert.

Steve Gipson [00:46:51]:
Just do the little things you need to do to start making a little impact here and there. So that way when you look up 5 years from now, You don't weigh 400 pounds, you know, you're a good lean 300, but at least you have some progress, right?

Benjamin Mena [00:47:02]:
So you've gotten the chance to see the backends of a lot of different recruiting companies. You've got the chance to meet a lot of top billers, and you were a recruiter for many years yourself. What have you seen as like the threat, as a difference between average and elite?

Steve Gipson [00:47:17]:
Willingness to evolve and to know that they don't have all the answers. That to me, curiosity, those kinds of things, that kind of mindset. So like when we look at Pinnacle, right? You were at Pinnacle with me this last one. I think there's this misconception of the Pinnacle Society and I hope they don't kick me out from their conferences by speaking on this behalf. I think they would agree with this though, but I think there's this misconception that they all think they're the best and there's nothing left to learn. They're just up there at their meetings and they're just talking about how great they all are, right? Yeah. But in reality, all of those people in that room, they may build great numbers and they may be very good at what they do, but they have this desire to learn more every single day and learn from each other, learn from partners, to learn from people that would come in to speak. And they just have this appetite to get as much as they can to be as good as they could, they can be.

Steve Gipson [00:48:09]:
And I think that desire that's there makes a great recruiter because then they're open to new ideas, they're new, open to new concepts. They're not in this world that they think they know and have all the answers. And so when I look at that group of 80 and all the ones that I've worked with that are not maybe not part of that group, but also very, very great, that desire and that appetite to continue to learn, to try new things and to continue to grow within their industry and their desk, those are the ones that are great versus the ones that are not.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:36]:
And that reminds me of like the summit. I put on a bunch of summits for those that have been to them or haven't been to them. I got a text message like a month after one of the summits and recruiter that normally bills like $700,000 to $1 million. He's like, oh yeah, hey, by the way, I just went through the replays. I watched 4 summit talks this weekend. And this is like a month after it's done. Here's some of my takeaways that I'm adding to my desk. I completely forgot about it.

Benjamin Mena [00:48:58]:
I was like, I haven't even gone back in to check out some of those summit talks, but you're just digging in deep. And just reminded me of that moment. I was like, okay, that desire.

Steve Gipson [00:49:08]:
It, it's huge. I mean, it's, it, it literally is everything when we talk about, and, and that's anything like personal, right? So whether it's working a desk or just anything that we do, I have clients that I know go back and read the same book every year. They maybe have read that book 30 times over, but if they're ever in a place where they're in a slump or that, that it's not going as well at that point of the year, they pick up that book that has basics of recruiting. That allows them to read that information and get some re-encouragement or just reestablishment of some of the things that they forgot they're doing. Oh man, I haven't been asking about, I haven't been pre-closing as well as I, I should be. I've gotten lazy on that. And then that reminds them of that or gives them a new perspective on that at that time in their life and allows them to grow and develop into that. So yeah, man, that's everything.

Steve Gipson [00:49:54]:
I, I don't care how technologically advanced you are. I mean, technology can get by for a little bit. You may get more reps, more job orders that you shouldn't have got, like those bad recruiters that we talked about. But if you're not curious, you're not growing your desk, your ability as a recruiter, none of that means anything. And you're eventually going to be out of business.

Benjamin Mena [00:50:12]:
Talking about books that you just mentioned, is there a book that's had a huge impact on your career? And you might, you might just say like one of our mutual friends.

Steve Gipson [00:50:21]:
Yeah. You know, I gotta, I gotta plug him, right? I got to, because I grew up with the man. I did. Uh, Steve Finkel. His books are great. I have one. I was looking for it. I have it on my desk right now.

Steve Gipson [00:50:30]:
I don't even recruit and I still, I still keep it. By me. I watched the VHS tapes growing up, right? I watched all those things and, and there's so many little nuggets there that we've pulled out that I think if you haven't read 'em, they're good refreshers. Um, there's, and give you some good foundations within it. You know, I, I've seen Danny Cahill speak tons of times. That was just from being at so many conferences. And every time I hear him speak, I want to walk away and conquer the whole world, right? It's fantastic every single time. So, you know, I haven't read, I don't think he, he may have some books.

Steve Gipson [00:50:59]:
I haven't read his books, But I do know like something like that and just being engaged in that kind of content and the way that he approaches that is, is something that is, is huge. I encourage people to look into being able to attend or be a part of his coaching or things that he's doing. I mean, it's awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:15]:
Out of curiosity, because like you're not in the recruiting chair anymore or you haven't been in the recruiting chair for a while, but if you can go back in time and like with everything that you know now, like say something to yourself, what would you actually tell yourself? Like, Rewinding the tape.

Steve Gipson [00:51:29]:
Stay in recruiting. Do you know how much money these guys make?

Benjamin Mena [00:51:32]:
No.

Steve Gipson [00:51:32]:
Okay. What are you doing? No.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:36]:
Yeah.

Steve Gipson [00:51:36]:
I mean, so I started in 2009, right? So it was a bad market to be in, to start in that, in that industry. But yeah, just to be, because I was, you know, I was what, when I started, I was 20, 21 when I started in the industry. So you don't know anything at 21. You know, you think you know a lot of stuff, but you don't. So I would, I would tell myself to be, to be more curious, to be more active, be more consistent in the things that are gonna improve what you're doing from work perspective versus just floating by, right? I think that's what we all, whether, and even in this desk, in my sales desk now, helping to grow this organization and things that we've done here, you can get on autopilot so much that you forget some of the things that you should be doing. And if I could go back and tell myself that, Yeah. than I think I, you know, maybe could have gotten more out of what I was doing from a recruiter perspective.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:28]:
You probably get asked a lot of questions. How do I rank better? What do I do to make more placements? How do I do this? And all those conversations across all these years of talking to recruiters and even just good conversations, do you ever just wish a recruiter would just ask you like this one question? What would be that question?

Steve Gipson [00:52:47]:
How are you, Steve? No, if they could ask me one question, I wish they would ask me one question. Man, it's tough, Ben, because I get asked everything, right? I get asked, hey Steve, what should my verticals be? What should my niche be? Steve, do you know any companies that I can, that are looking to be acquired? What's your favorite ATS? How do I get, you know, visibility out on my website? I'm trying to think of one thing they haven't been asked that I wish they would ask me. Um, I don't know, man. Is it bad that I don't, I don't think, I think I have an answer.

Benjamin Mena [00:53:22]:
No, it's all good. No stress.

Steve Gipson [00:53:24]:
I mean, I want to, you know, I want to, I want to give you something to make a soundbite out of, but, but I, I, I don't know if I have any that I haven't been asked. No one really asked because everybody wants the, everybody wants the results. And people were asking, well, Steve, how long will it take me to see an ROI? How long will it take me to return those results and receive that return on my investment? So everybody asked that, but nobody really asked, Steve, what does it take?

Benjamin Mena [00:53:53]:
Really?

Steve Gipson [00:53:54]:
We all come with a preconceived idea of what we think it takes, but nobody says, Steve, you know, what do I need to do to be great, to make sure that my website, things I'm doing online, whether it's LinkedIn, website, anything from a marketing perspective, is great? Nobody really asked that. They just say, how can we get more revenue? Right? Because the answer is just be consistent. In what you're doing. Find something you enjoy doing, do those things. Find the things that you don't enjoy doing, outsource those, and just be consistent in those to build up that presence and that visibility online. And then again, whether I'm doing it or whether you're doing it yourself, that's going to yield results for you. And I really, really believe that. So if they could say, Steve, what does it actually take for me to be able to be successful? Versus how, how much does it cost kind of concept.

Steve Gipson [00:54:44]:
It's just be consistent with that. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:54:49]:
Awesome. Steve, I, I just wanna say thank you. I, we were chatting about this at the Pinnacle Society meeting and I, I was kind of like in awe. I was sitting there and just adding up numbers across the talks. And yes, these people are doing like all the things that, that it takes to be an excellent top billing recruiter, billing the numbers that they do. But so often some of them start talking about, yeah, no, I, I've actually started investing in SEO. Like we've got about $200K here, someone has $400K here, somebody talked about another $100K of just like inbound work. And I was like, are we just leaving money on the table or am I just leaving money on the table as a recruiter with my awesome website that my amazing wife built? Love you, babe.

Benjamin Mena [00:55:27]:
She doesn't listen to the podcast anyway, so. But like, it just made me think, I was like, I don't know, what can we do just a little better to help everybody listening get a little more money in their pocket? Because the world's changing. How can we help a recruiter win? And I was, like I said, blown away. I was like, shit, that's actually inbound. Yeah.

Steve Gipson [00:55:54]:
I mean, it's crazy because people listen to this, right? I don't know how many people listen to your show.

Benjamin Mena [00:55:58]:
Like 16,000, 17,000 a month.

Steve Gipson [00:56:01]:
That's a lot of people, right? That's great. But out of those listeners, 5% may take what we're talking about today and actually do it, right? Probably less than that. They're actually gonna take the advice I said and go optimize their existing website or invest in their website from a consistency perspective and begin optimizing that. And so that sounds pretty bleak, right? But if you are in that 5% that are going to do that, Think about how wide open the opportunity is for you to make an impact and become visible because so many people write it off. And I've been preaching this for, again, 10 years and 13 years and nobody will do it. Hardly anybody would do it in the grand scheme of everybody I've spoken to, the thousands of recruiters that I've spoken to within this. And so the ones that will do this have such a great opportunity. It's like the guy that There's this, that, I don't know who said what, what story this is, but the guy that went and went to, went back in the 1800s, went to Africa and he said, nobody there has a, it's a shoe salesman.

Steve Gipson [00:57:04]:
He went there, he goes, man, nobody there has any shoes. So it's not a great market. We don't need to go there. And then another guy from another shoe company went, their sales guy, he said, guys, it's fantastic. Nobody there has shoes. There's a massive opportunity for us to be able to sell shoes to all these people. Different mindsets of what's there. They approached it completely.

Steve Gipson [00:57:25]:
One was negative in the sense of, well, nobody wears shoes, so nobody wants shoes. And this, but the other guy had it, that saw that, hey, no, nobody has shoes, so there's a great opportunity for us to sell shoes there. And so if we could approach this SEO visibility and this concept of nobody is doing this, there's an opportunity for me to make a massive impact. It's a wide open playing field if I just take the initiative. And start doing this, I'm going to see huge results from this. Maybe not tomorrow because it's not going to happen, but 12 months from now, a year from now, 3 years from now, you're going to look up and you're going to say, I'm generating substantial revenue from my website and through relationships that I've built through people that reached out to me first time through my website that are now things that I can say I'm getting a huge return on what I invested in. And I am extremely confident In that, again, doesn't matter if we do it, just somebody do it. And so that would be my encouragement is just think about the people that actually aren't going to act on this.

Steve Gipson [00:58:24]:
And if you're the one that does, you have a lot of opportunity.

Benjamin Mena [00:58:28]:
For the small percentage that does, even if you don't use Steve, like I know Steve, Steve would actually like actually be cool with this. If you don't, even if you don't use Steve and you just do this in yourself and you come back A year from now, you say something about the results, shoot Steve a message to be like, hey, thank you for being on the podcast. I actually had this amount inbound. Thank you for sharing that.

Steve Gipson [00:58:49]:
Yeah, 100%. And even if they, if you want to do it yourself and you just want to spend a few minutes talking to me about what to do, I'm, you know, I approach this very from a consultant perspective. I don't need to be the one to absolutely do this. There'll be, if you do it yourself and you grow your business, there'll be other opportunities for us to work together down the road. Right. So if you need advice on what to do and you just want me to review your website and give you some tips and things that you could take advantage of today, shoot me an email, give me a message, give me a call. I'm happy to spend some time with you going through those things. And to me, it all, it all works out in the end.

Steve Gipson [00:59:21]:
And I just, to be an advocate for those firms that are out there that don't have these resources internally, love to be able to do that.

Benjamin Mena [00:59:27]:
What's the best way to either follow you or connect with you?

Steve Gipson [00:59:30]:
Yeah, I mean, connect me with on LinkedIn, steve@recruiterswebsites.com. You can give me an email. It's recruiterswebsites, both plural, or just go to recruiterswebsites.com and give me a reach out there. Every form on that website goes to me. So just fill out something and I promise you I'll find it. So yeah, I mean, any of your traditional ways that you can reach me.

Benjamin Mena [00:59:51]:
Awesome. Well, Steve, I just want to say thank you for coming on. Like I said, like I was, my mind was kind of blown. I was like, wait, recruiters are actually doing like great recruiters that either identity is attached to headhunting. Are talking about the inbound work. We need to talk about this because somebody else listening needs to take advantage. So 2026, it's your year. Let's make it happen.

Benjamin Mena [01:00:10]:
At the end of the day, every recruiter wants 3 things: more clients, better candidates, and fewer headaches. That's exactly what Recruiters Websites will help you achieve. They build high-performing websites, create marketing consistency, and boost your visibility so you can focus on what you do best— recruiting. When your brand shows up first where it matters most, growth gets a whole lot easier. Ready to scale your desk and dominate your niche? Mention Elite Recruiter and get 10% off any new service at recruiterswebsites.com. You know, the resume never tells the full story. Candidates share what really matters during conversations, on calls and interviews, over email, their motivations, salary expectations, plans to relocate. Most of that detail ends up buried in notes and forgotten.

Benjamin Mena [01:00:52]:
Atlas changes that. It's the AI-first recruitment platform built to eliminate admin. It captures every conversation automatically and turns it into something you can use. With Magic Search, you can ask Atlas questions like, who talked about wanting a 4-day week? Or, who mentioned they're open to relocating next year? It searches across your entire database and pulls the answers instantly. No keyword guessing and no digging through old notes. You get insight from real conversations, not limited resume fields. Atlas also makes BD easier. With Opportunities, you can track and grow client relationships, powered by generative AI and built into your existing workflow.

Benjamin Mena [01:01:27]:
If you want visibility, well, smart dashboards give you a clear view of the pipeline across your business. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported over 40% EBITDA growth and over 80% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. It's built for agencies that want to grow without adding more manual work. Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer at recruitwithatlas.com.

Steve Gipson [01:01:54]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.