Going Retained Masterclass Part 1 with Allie Milbrath

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
The AI recruiting summit is coming back this year, 2026 and my God, things are starting to get crazy. We are seeing the change that we've been talking about for a few years now, but man, you do not want to miss a summit. Registration is free for all the live sessions. It is going to be kicking off July 13th all the way through the 20th. You do not want to miss as we are going to have tech tools. We we are going to have operators, we are going to have recruiting engineers, we are going to have recruiters that are actually using tools to make a difference in their recruiting desk, talking about what they're doing. The world's changing fast. This is a chance to see what's happening behind the scenes with a lot of recruiters.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:42]:
You don't want to miss this. Get registered today. I'll see you there. Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast.

Allie Milbrath [00:00:49]:
Knowing how to leverage it and how to use AI is going to make some parts of our job a lot easier. But I'm going to challenge you because I think what's not changing is that a majority of recruiters are contingent. And I think that is the biggest shift that we need to see to really change how our industry is viewed. Those are the things that are just AI is not going to replace that. And if you are a good recruiter that you know has enough business acumen to ask the right questions, that is why your client is going to pay you as a retained recruiter.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:25]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host Benjamin Mena. We focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements. You know the resume never tells the full story. Candidates share what really matters during conversations, on calls and interviews, over email. Their motivations, salary, expectations, plans to relocate. Most of that detail ends up buried in notes and forgotten. Atlas changes that.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:58]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:02:28]:
Powered by generative AI and built into your existing workflow. If you want visibility, smart dashboards give you a clear view of the pipeline across your business. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported over 40% EBITDA growth and over 80% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. It's built for agencies that want to grow without adding more manual work. Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer@reruitwithatlas.com all right, I am so excited about this episode because here's one of the things we talk about, bringing a higher level to recruiting. We've talked about retain, we've talked about contingent, we've talked about all these things.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:13]:
But I wanted to put together an episode on how you can start making that transition to retain, how you can start doing a higher level service. So I am actually bringing in one of the best experts who has shared at multiple summits on how to do this. And I think the last summit, she was actually one of the top three most voted on speakers because her expertise is how do you bring the next level to your clients? How do you go retained. So maybe we'll just call this the retained masterclass for recruiters. I don't know, I'll think of some better title. But I am excited to bring this up for you. A walkthrough. We're gonna take this, like, make this six chapters on how you can really raise the bar.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:03]:
So here's the thing that, that you need to think about. One of the biggest mistakes that recruiters right now are making is they're is they're panicking about AI Instead of asking the hard question, which part of my service is actually value to begin with? If your value is actually sending a bunch of LinkedIn messages as fast as possible, AI might replace you pretty soon. And I would be super worried. But if you're working 10 recs at once, competing against three other firms, with some of your clients now working with AI, you're starting to see AI starting to eat into some of those buildings. This episode is actually a way out. That's why I'm excited to have Ali here. She runs a 100% retained firm for nearly a decade, and today she's going to give you the playbook on how to make that switch. The scripts, the structure, the truth, and the math.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:57]:
So excited to have Ali back. Allie, welcome back to the podcast.

Allie Milbrath [00:05:01]:
Thank you, thank you. I'm excited to be here again.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:05]:
So real quick, for anybody that wants to go through this awesome origin story where you actually talked about all the work that you did to bring your husband home from corporate America, go back and listen to that. Episode. But for the people that actually haven't had the chance yet to listen to that, maybe a quick 30 second self introduction. Maybe actually, hold on, let's expand it to a quick two to three minutes. That way people know exactly who you are.

Allie Milbrath [00:05:33]:
All right, I won't bore with too many details, but I'm Allie Millbraath. I am the founder of the Quinn Roberts Company and prior to starting my own firm I worked with an executive search firm for almost, almost 12 years. I did a couple years in staffing to kick off my career, went into search and then started my own firm and started my own firm. There were a lot of different reasons. If you are a working mother, I think you should definitely go back and listen to mine and Benjamin's first conversation because that played a big part in this. But in addition to that, I saw the way that executive search firms started operating and I just wasn't comfortable with it. I felt that there was a better way, more relationship driven and on a whim went off and started my own firm. So the Quinn Roberts Company, we don't niche, which whenever I'm talking to people they're like, oh my gosh.

Allie Milbrath [00:06:32]:
What? You don't niche? You run a seven figure search firm and you don't niche? I don't and it's actually sort of my value add to my clients. But we work primarily in the middle market. We place leadership level roles in hr, hr, sales, finance and operations. And I find that because we're working with four main functional areas of our clients, we get to know their business so intimately that they know if I am recruiting on a finance role or a sales role, I better start working in their operations team because I understand how all of these people are working together. So yeah, it's been 10 great years. It was scary when I started, but I would never look back. And as Benjamin said, I've been 100% retained the whole time. I never took one contingent search.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:22]:
All right, so for the listeners, and I know that we've talked about this before, like at the summit, some other places, but how much business development do you do?

Allie Milbrath [00:07:30]:
Like zero. My, my form of business development is very different than I think what a majority of our industry does. My business development is through my clients, through getting referrals, not only internally, but them referring me to acquaintances or people that they have in their networks at different organizations. So it's this organic business development. It is business development. Right, but it's not your traditional cold calling marketing campaigns. It looks very different. It's just a lot More natural of a method of business development.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:09]:
So. And how many years has that been this natural? No, cold BD literally 10 years.

Allie Milbrath [00:08:17]:
My first client came to me after I had left the executive search firm. I was letting my non compete run its course and they reached out to me and said, hey, I heard you started your own firm. And I hadn't at that point I just said I did on that phone call. And that's kind of what kicked this whole thing off. So literally from my first client it has been referral based.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:38]:
And second, what I maybe because this is important to me as a dad. How much time do you get to spend with your kids?

Allie Milbrath [00:08:48]:
I spend all the time I want to with my kids. I mean I would spend 100 of time with them if I could. But I am very actively involved in their school. I coach them in soccer, in basketball, in volleyball. I coach tennis. So I am involved at a very high level. They know mom works. They know mom's professional life is very important to her.

Allie Milbrath [00:09:13]:
Which I'm, I'm glad that I'm instilling work ethic into them and really helping them understand when I'm not with them, this is what I'm doing and this is I do it for the family, but I don't miss anything. I am there for every school classroom party, every concert, every game. And that is just absolutely priceless.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:36]:
And that's why I'm excited to have you teach this first. We'll call this this first masterclass for the elite recruiter podcast. Because you run a seven figure firm, because you're not doing cold bd, because you get to spin all the important moments with your family. I thought you were perfect to lay this out, why recruiters should make that transition. So we're going to break this into six different chapters. The first chapter is going to be why you should maybe evolve beyond transactional. So let this shift out for me. What is actually changing in this industry right now and what should people be scared of?

Allie Milbrath [00:10:17]:
Yeah, I think what's. Of course there's AI that's changing some things for me. I am not scared of it. I don't think that's going to replace my job. Knowing how to leverage it and how to use AI is going to make some parts of our job a lot easier. But to challenge you, because I think what's not changing is that a majority of recruiters are contingent. And I think that is the biggest shift that we need to see to really change how our industry is viewed. Recruiters see it all the time.

Allie Milbrath [00:10:50]:
We've got the market that is so frustrated by their experience with recruiters and it's because the majority of recruiters are contingent. So I think that's what needs to change. Yes, AI is kind of reshaping how we do things. It's infusing tools in our process that are going to help us be more efficient. But what's not changing is clients expectations and continuing to want to raise standards. And that is the difference between retained and contingent.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:23]:
So what are the things in recruiting that a client and a company can't get from AI?

Allie Milbrath [00:11:30]:
They can't get the honest market feedback. They can't get the true calibration, the market mapping, the candidate influence that we have, search, structure, trust. All of those things that I like. If you put all those things in AI, it confuses it. Right. And I've tried, I have had AI try to evaluate candidates that are so far from the fit of what my client is looking for and tell me it's a great candidate. It's those intangibles and it's really educating your client on the market, market, that is what they want from you. So those are the things that are just.

Allie Milbrath [00:12:11]:
Their AI is not going to replace that. And if you are a good recruiter that you know has enough business acumen to ask the right questions, that is why your client is going to pay you as a retained recruiter.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:24]:
Can you just for the listeners and this, just to make this real, like can you give me a moment where not the speed, not the access, what are these, these intangible things that that AI can't replace actually saved a search.

Allie Milbrath [00:12:38]:
Oh my goodness. To me it's like every search because what you find out about your candidate along the way doesn't come from a predetermined list of interview questions. It's getting to know them and understanding what their triggers are, what's missing for them in their current job and what they're looking to do in the future. And matching that to where your client is, what and phase of business are they in right now? Not only what this role is going to be brought in to do, but what does that look like in three to five years from now? And bringing that together, that's something that AI is not going to configure for you. And I feel like it's every single search I conduct, you're putting those pieces together. And if you're not doing that, not only are you doing your client a disservice, you're not helping yourself because you're not building credibility and that authority for your client to trust you with another search.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:37]:
And because you run like a seven figure agency and a seven figure business, like, you know, most people would think that you're an aggressive salesperson. Like, please don't take this the wrong way. You don't come off as this hyper aggressive. And, you know, I think that's especially because I've gotten a chance to know you over those last few years, and there's a lot of recruiters out there that are not the attack dog. So why are these clients coming to you over and over again?

Allie Milbrath [00:14:10]:
It's the level of trust that's built. And I know that might seem oversimplified, but it's the truth. I am not an aggressive salesperson. And it's really funny because even when I was working for another agency, they never put me in a sales role because I didn't want to be that person. You know, I built the desk in my team off of repeat business, and they knew better than to put me in a pure sales role. Just that's. That just wasn't my jam. I think building the trust is.

Allie Milbrath [00:14:40]:
Is number one and the ability to push back with confidence. I will tell clients if they're not. If they're not signed with me, if we're just kind of having this initial conversation, I will tell them if they're off base, I will tell them where the market doesn't align to what they're looking for. I'll challenge them on what they think the scope of the role is or they're not used to that they're used to. Yes, ma'. Am. Yes, sir. Recruiters that, you know, if they're looking for somebody that can jump through three hoops and do a backflip and then a cartwheel and land on a roof, like, okay, yep, I will find you that person.

Allie Milbrath [00:15:14]:
It's having just those real conversations and just making them feel like you want to help their business. This isn't a transaction. I want to help you. I want to help your business versus just trying to get that quick win.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:29]:
And I want to go back to AI before we jump into the next chapter again. So, like, you know, everybody talks about, including myself, like, AI is for the transactional stuff humans do, the relationship stuff. Cloud is kind of like changing the game, and tech is moving fast. What is something that people think that is human? Only that the AI is starting to catch up with.

Allie Milbrath [00:15:52]:
I think AI. I mean, AI is getting better at sourcing, but I still think AI they're scraping job boards, they're scraping LinkedIn, it makes it a little bit more efficient. It doesn't mean that it's scraping the right candidates. And I should mention I do 100% passive recruitment. I don't ever post roles. It's like my worst nightmare. But what I think Claude is getting good at is really helping to identify gaps. So when you're looking at transcripts and prompting some follow up questions, maybe what you've missed in the interview and what they've learned about the role that you're working on, I think it's getting better at that.

Allie Milbrath [00:16:34]:
But again, it's going to take the right line of questioning, stylistically asking it in the right way to get true answers from a candidate. So again, AI is great. You're right, it's moving faster than any of us can keep up with. But at what parts of the process is it going to actually stick and be the long term solution? I think that's still up for debate

Benjamin Mena [00:17:00]:
and want to jump into the next chapter. And you know, it's one of the things that you mentioned in the pregame, how much of retained search is a mindset shift. And like, don't laugh at me, like I actually was just like you said that I was like, oh, it really is, isn't

Allie Milbrath [00:17:20]:
is it is. I don't understand why people are so afraid to ask for the retainer. I think that, you know, how about this?

Benjamin Mena [00:17:31]:
Like, like what do you think they're actually afraid of?

Allie Milbrath [00:17:34]:
I think they're afraid of commitment. I think that is the number one thing. It gives them emotional exits. That's what I like to call it, emotional exits. Because when a search gets hard and you've got 15 others on your desk that you know you could possibly fill, if one is giving you fatigue, you can just move on. So it gives you that out of the emotional exit. I think if a client is difficult, it's very easy to move on. If the market is challenging, it's easy to move on.

Allie Milbrath [00:18:06]:
It's like, and then over time this compounds and then they cannot operate from a place of depth. It is like so high level what they're doing, that they are afraid. And if they take a role and they cannot fill it, then what? It's just this mindset that they're just so used to. So I think that's that, that's where the mindset needs to shift. If things get hard, that's okay, right? Because if you know that you've got a system in place where you know from an operational standpoint you are running a search in A very strategic, you know, repeatable process way you're going to fill that search. Yes, it might get hard. All of my searches are hard. I don't get easy searches.

Allie Milbrath [00:18:50]:
But I know that I've got the best process in place. I've got a great relationship that I'm forging with my client where when things get hard, we are having a very open, easy conversation about it to understand where we need to shift to be successful.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:05]:
And I want to ask this question as like, take me back to the earlier days of like you starting your agency. You know, you didn't have like the framework in the background and a big name. Was there a search early on that got super hard? You kind of wish that it was contingent and you could have just walked away, but you made yourself stay. Like, what did staying teach you?

Allie Milbrath [00:19:28]:
Totally. That happened to me a million times over. Sticking through the hard times is why I got to where I am. Because if I would have said, nope, you know what, this isn't going to work for me. What you're looking for is unrealistic, or I can't find it in the market or, you know, fiscally, it doesn't make sense for me to work on this anymore. Obviously I would have lost that client. I wouldn't have gotten referred to three more. And that's kind of where the trickle effect happens.

Allie Milbrath [00:19:53]:
You have to get through the hard. And your first few routine searches, they might break you a little bit. But if you stick with them, you know, and you end successfully, which you should, it'll lead to more business. It should lead to more business. If it's not, I think again, there's a fundamental issue there. But sticking through the hard is what's going to separate you from other recruiters.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:18]:
On the flip side, who should, who should hear this and decide that this is generally not for them.

Allie Milbrath [00:20:27]:
You know, I, of course, if you're working on lower level roles like laborers or you know, hourly, hourly level, those that doesn't align. I think there's some industries that, you know, retained is just not a natural fit for. But again, it's that mindset. If you cannot get over the fact that you have to deliver, retain's not for you in general. So I think, you know, there are certain positions and industries where, you know, maybe it just doesn't make sense, But I've been retained on $50,000 AR roles and most AR type of roles. Like, you know, it's so transactional. It's just a really quick, It's a transactional job. I've been retained on those because they know I'm going to fill it.

Allie Milbrath [00:21:11]:
So for me, I think it's more about the mindset than it is about the actual position.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:17]:
So for somebody listening, like, how does somebody tell the difference between the fear that's holding them back or it's genuinely not a market fit, like, perfect example, like, you know, I can easily tell a light industrial recruiter like, hey, probably retained search isn't for you, but for other people, like, how do you split the difference between fear versus market?

Allie Milbrath [00:21:40]:
I think that, you know, it comes down to, it comes down to number one, you know, what your client has had experience with, which I hope we talk about later because I think I've taken on plenty of searches that have come after contingent recruiters have, you know, bulldozed their way through and it hasn't gone well. It's really tough for me, Benjamin, because I think that in most markets, you know, unless they're really low level roles, I think there's a, there's a place for retained. I think somebody would have to come to me with, hey, they absolutely will not do retained. You know, it's a 150k job, but they won't do retained. I'd have to understand the why, because for me, I've never done it and I don't understand why anybody does contingent. So it's a tough question for me to answer because in most, in most situations there's a place for it and

Benjamin Mena [00:22:34]:
that maybe this is now the part for us to jump into the next chapter where I, I want to know the pitch. Let's walk through a bit of a role play. Let's walk through all this stuff. So one of the things that I want to do this is for the listeners especially like learning how to potentially sell. I am going to pretend to be a VP of hr. My goal is to try to stay in character and that probably won't work out too well. But I want you to kind of like pressure test this. Like the only thing that I've ever done with my company as, as a VP of HR is I've only done contingent.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:08]:
I'm skeptical. Don't just, you know, so let's run the conversation and then rewind it for the listeners, a bit of a breakdown. So, like playing dumb for this conversation. Did you get referred over to me or did I call you?

Allie Milbrath [00:23:25]:
You got referred to me. But you're used to doing tangent?

Benjamin Mena [00:23:28]:
Yep. Okay, cool. So can you start off like the conversation and see how it goes?

Allie Milbrath [00:23:34]:
Yeah. So tell me about your experience working with recruiters.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:39]:
You know, recruiters are a pain in the butt. I don't know why they like even chose that industry. They're all slimy salespeople. Not really, but you know, but yeah, we've had some great recruiters and we've lot of like, you know, we've signed a ton of contracts with people that promise the world said they were going to fill the job and hop, skip and a jump, they disappear.

Allie Milbrath [00:24:00]:
So my question to you is, why are you calling me? If you've worked with, you know, a lot of recruiters before, you know, why isn't there one sticking out to you to go back to?

Benjamin Mena [00:24:11]:
That's a good question. I have probably do. They just weren't filling the roles. And you know, we're always exploring new opportunities with recruiters because you just never know like who has access to what candidates.

Allie Milbrath [00:24:22]:
Sure. Now, do you typically partner contingent or retained with your recruiters?

Benjamin Mena [00:24:29]:
We've never done retained. We only do contingent. Like I don't understand like why I have to pay up front for something that could turn into like a no win, no fee.

Allie Milbrath [00:24:41]:
Sure. You know, how much time do you typically spend with these other recruiters prior to launching a search?

Benjamin Mena [00:24:48]:
Normally it's about a 45 minute to an hour conversation. Walk through a little bit of the jd, walk through some of the role and you know, tell them exactly what I need and I let them go do it. They're the experts.

Allie Milbrath [00:25:00]:
Okay. And are they talking to you or are they talking to the hiring manager as well?

Benjamin Mena [00:25:04]:
It's sometimes a combination of both. When they have time to talk with a hiring manager and we can get the schedule aligned, it's always works best. But at the end of the day a lot of the stuff actually has to come through me.

Allie Milbrath [00:25:17]:
Okay, now do you get tradition? Do you get communication cadence? Like do you know what's happening behind the scenes during the search?

Benjamin Mena [00:25:25]:
Normally not. Normally it goes up until like the, when I find out about what's going on, it's maybe an update where either where I reach out, maybe like if nothing's happening within two weeks, they reach out to me. But most of the time it's just the communications when I get a submittal.

Allie Milbrath [00:25:42]:
Okay, now do you typically when you go contingent, are you working with one recruiter or do you try a couple or three at a time just to see who brings you what I mean,

Benjamin Mena [00:25:53]:
normally a perfect example is right now for this one role that I'm called you about, I actually have three different firms working on it.

Allie Milbrath [00:26:00]:
Okay, and how's that going for you so far?

Benjamin Mena [00:26:03]:
It's still open. I'm talking to you.

Allie Milbrath [00:26:05]:
Okay. Yeah. Well, let's talk about kind of the challenges, I think, of what you're going through right now. I think a lot of times people think that partnering with multiple contingent recruiters, it's a great strategy. You're not investing, you know, any revenue into it. And you've got three recruiters out there in the market, you know, trying to find what you're looking for. No fail. Right.

Allie Milbrath [00:26:28]:
Like, they've got to either have somebody in their database or their outreaches is going to find someone. I think that's right. That's probably what you're thinking.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:34]:
Exactly. Why I was just like, you know what? I got three. It'd be great to add, maybe add one more.

Allie Milbrath [00:26:40]:
Okay, well, here's what's going to be different for you. If you wanted to take this to the next step and partner with us, we would have you turn those off. Number one, it's terrible for your employment brand to have multiple recruiters having three points of view out in the marketplace. It's a pretty niche role that you're looking for. And so they're probably calling on all the same people, giving them different versions of who you are as an organization and what the role is. So not only is it an employment branding issue, your role is no longer credible. Right. Like, if you hear about the same role from three different recruiters from three different firms, you start to question, wow, this is a really, you know, is this position real? This is really chaotic.

Allie Milbrath [00:27:22]:
And it's probably to them a reflection of how your business operates. So that's always my number one call out, right? Is that, you know, if I come in, number one, nobody else is going to work on it, and it's really for your benefit. Number two, we don't do any contingent. And I know you're telling me that, you know, you've only done contingent before, but I think where I would challenge you is that it's not working. Right. Like, you don't have your go to contingent recruiter. That's filling these roles successfully for you. What we do different is we are pulling together this search in a very systematic way.

Allie Milbrath [00:28:01]:
We're going to spend a lot of time with you up front to learn the business, to really understand what the business is going through right now. And we might actually challenge you on the job description, too. You know, a lot of times it's, you know, you take a job description from an open role from five years ago, and you just put it forward as though that's what you need today. And your business probably looks a little different now than it did five years ago. So it's about really shaping and making sure we're set up for success. From there, again, we go through the systematic process. You, it's super transparent. You can see in real time who I'm reaching out to, when I'm reaching out to them.

Allie Milbrath [00:28:37]:
I'm not worried about you seeing who we're reaching out to because for you, what should be important is how your company is being represented, how we are talking about your organization and the role and engaging with the market. So we can talk more about, you know, the, the systems that we have in place for that. But, but this is why we're retained, because we want to be a partner to your business. We are fully committed to your business. We're not going to be a contingent recruiter that has, you know, 18 other wrecks and you're just one of them. And if it happens to make traction in the first couple of weeks, we'll stick with it. We're with you for the long haul and that's really what your experience is going to be. Very different.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:20]:
Okay, so what's the fees look like for this?

Allie Milbrath [00:29:27]:
Yeah, so what we do is we break it out into. Typically, it's three, three different invoices. And we'll put skin in the game first. You know, we will have these conversations with your hiring team. We will pull together a job description, you know, and once we all agree on it, that's when the first invoice goes out. So it's 25%. We base that off the median or the, you know, the base salary that we're looking at. Typically, once we get two candidates that are going to second round interviews, that triggers the second third of the invoice.

Allie Milbrath [00:29:58]:
And then once we have a hire, you get invoiced the week that they start. Now, I know that you're used to contingent and this is new for you, so I would suggest maybe we do a contained model where we collect that retainer up front and I'll withhold the second invoice and we'll do the remaining two thirds upon hire. But moving forward, when we partner again in the future, we'll go to the traditional three invoices.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:27]:
So the three firms I'm already working with are all at 20% contingent. Can you guys, can you guys come down on your price?

Allie Milbrath [00:30:35]:
You know, I wouldn't suggest that. You're going to have a very different experience with us that warrants the 25%. You have our full commitment. You're going to get market data again. It's a very transparent process. So we're pretty firm on that 25%, but you're going to see the value from that.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:56]:
So what happens if you don't find anybody? Am I just lighting my money on fire?

Allie Milbrath [00:31:01]:
You know, I can tell you, in my 10 years of doing this on my own, we've never had that situation come up. Sure, some searches take longer than you want it to, but we're talking along the way and recalibrating as we need to. So it's not this man behind the curtain. You don't know what's happening and you're frustrated. We're having conversations, you know, on whether it's weekly or bi weekly about what's happening in the search. So there's no question marks. It's not going to happen. You know, I'm happy to send testimonials and, you know, you can call references if you want to, but, you know, for us, it's not even a conversation because we're fully committed and this position will get filled.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:39]:
So how do I tell the other three companies that they're fired?

Allie Milbrath [00:31:43]:
You know, you just have to tell them that they didn't have the results and you're. You're trying a new, more strategic way to go about talent.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:51]:
So that was good. Is there anything that, like, I. Any questions that I should have asked as the VP of HR that you typically get that somebody listening can, like, definitely learn from?

Allie Milbrath [00:32:04]:
I think you hit the major ones. I mean, typically it is. They're not used to it. They're not going to be able to get their leadership on board with it. They, you know, don't want to make that fiscal contract, you know, out of the gate. You know, would you try contingent first? First, you know, to get your foot in the door and then the second one will do. Retained. Those are the big ones.

Allie Milbrath [00:32:26]:
Typically it is. We typically don't do contingent or we've never done contingent, and it's getting them over that hump.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:33]:
How often do you get over that hump of never doing it to. To retain versus like, hey, this isn't the best maybe match for us as a company?

Allie Milbrath [00:32:43]:
Yeah, I actually, I just had that happen recently where they were just so used to contingent. I got them over the hump and they actually signed the contract and I actually backed out because as we were learning more about the organization and how they structured their compensation, it's just not in alignment with the market. And it was not going to be a successful search. So I actually said, you know, hey, why don't you keep going with these contingent recruiters and see if you find a solution. And if in three months from now you're in the same spot and you want to revisit compensation and what I'm telling you, you're going to need to do to successful, call me then.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:24]:
So one of the things that you did, like when I started pushing you on price, you started looking at different ways of like structuring it. Walk me through like your thought process on that. So that way another recruiter can like, okay, this is how I do this. This is how I reposition. Without dropping your feet.

Allie Milbrath [00:33:44]:
Yeah, I think you just have to show the conviction. Because if you are trying to convince them that you are the caliber of recruiter for them to go retained, especially if they are not used to going retained. If you are not confident in that and you immediately back down, you devalue yourself. And so it's coming forward with that conviction and that confidence of no, that's great, that contingent recruiters are going to charge you 20%. You're clearly not happy. We're going to have much more value add here. So you stick to your guns. Now I'm not saying that to get your foot in the door.

Allie Milbrath [00:34:22]:
If you're new to retained and you need to get a few under your belt, sure, you can go in, you know, go in at 20%, but stick to 20%. You devalue yourself if they ask for the discount and you just give in right away, you're going to be doing more and so you're going to be worth them paying that, whether it's 5%, 10% more. Know your value. And hey, like I, I do 25, I could easily be doing the 33 and a third. I personally don't need to, you know, I'm not running a huge firm where I, I need those margins. People might look at me and be like, gosh, you're crazy for doing 25. It works in my business. For somebody else, 18 might work in their business.

Allie Milbrath [00:35:08]:
So it's knowing what you're comfortable with, maybe starting at a lower level just to get a few under your belt and then, you know, moving up to kind of what you're your target goal

Benjamin Mena [00:35:18]:
is give me some like real concessions that you've actually made on like the structure, the billing schedule, a milestone or a term that you made instead of changing your percentage.

Allie Milbrath [00:35:34]:
Yeah, the biggest one that I make is for first time clients going the contained Route where it's the retainer up front and then not billing the remaining 2/3 until the end. I done that fairly often. It's not all the time, but I'll. Because I say to them, you know, hey, like, let's get to know each other here. I am not here for one position. I want to be your partner moving forward. And so if that's what it takes for you or for us to build some trust and, you know, some camaraderie here, I'm fine with that. Especially because that third or that second invoice is typically triggered a week or two before there's a hire.

Allie Milbrath [00:36:14]:
So it doesn't really even matter. Just from a cash flow perspective, I will make that concession.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:20]:
And this is kind of like walking into like the next chapter for somebody listening. Like I'm trying to like break it into different parts. The mechanics of the search, like the fees and the structure. Do you a lot of times that maybe you hear about it from the, at the shrek firms where it's like it has to be done this way, but you're very not blind and white about your stuff. It flexes by, by clients. So teach me like what is that decision tree? What makes a structure, one deal, one third up front versus another one totally different?

Allie Milbrath [00:36:49]:
Yeah, well, I'm very firm on the third up front. Like that has to happen. You know, the other thing we can talk about, I, I'll answer your question in a second. Is for, you know, those first timers, you can talk about a flat fee as well. Because if they've got a role where they have some flexibility, is this going to be a 180k role or is it going to be a 250k? Just they don't know. They're still kind of figuring out in the business what they need. You can come up with a flat fee. You can take a retainer up front and say, hey, this is the flat fee again.

Allie Milbrath [00:37:18]:
It's building that trust that they don't think that I'm pushing the 250k candidate on them to get a bigger fee. But we're going to go in the median. We're going to, you know, make it a flat fee to again establish that trust between us. And now I forgot your question that I was supposed to answer my next question.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:36]:
We'll kind of like go back into this old question, but can you give me two recent deals where you actually had a different structures and can you tell me without name of the company names, like why one was right for one client and One was right for the other. Just so that way you can show people like the reasoning behind what you're thinking when you're dealing with these clients.

Allie Milbrath [00:37:58]:
Yes. Okay, so the one that I actually just gave you is a recent client. So they are coming off of a contingent disaster. Like they are so reluctant to partner with any recruiter because they've had just such a bad experience. And it's actually the third time that I have heard there's this search firm in my area that they've just had a terrible experience with. And so now I'm coming in. They've already lost trust in third party recruiters, but they need help. So in that scenario, that's exactly what I did.

Allie Milbrath [00:38:30]:
I said, hey, let's establish some trust here. We got to do that third up front. But again, instead of saying that we're going to base it off of this comp, we're just going to go with the median and we're going to base the final fee on that. I'm not going to do that for searches moving forward with them, but it at least gets them to feel like they're getting something for this. Right? Like, yes, they're making that investment up front on the retainer, but I am not going to be pushing the high comped candidates because they think I'm just in this for the fee. So that's one example. Gosh. Another.

Allie Milbrath [00:39:09]:
Another one. I mean, it's fairly similar, but it is more of that contained model where they were really struggling with that second invoice, not knowing when it was going to be triggered. You know, is that going to be in two weeks or is it going to be two months? And for them, I think it's a cash flow thing more than anything. So I said, you know, hey, let's do the retainer up front. I will withhold that second retainer and we'll do the two thirds at the end. So sometimes it's a fiscal question for them on when these things are going to hit the books, where they know when they're getting closer to where that final fee is going to be and they can, they might have to budget for it.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:47]:
Honestly, my next question, I know you have some of this within your program, but for those listening like, and I get this question a lot, like, what does but your contract look like? Like what in your contract protects? You talk about the off limits clauses, the replacement guarantees fall off terms. Like what does it on paper actually say, especially for somebody that's never had half of these in their contract?

Allie Milbrath [00:40:16]:
My contract goes over our terms. So I do lay out very black and white that retainer's net 30. You can't do net 60 because you're a contingent recruiter at that point. So I, I lay out the schedule of hey, this is when retainer one is due. This is when retain retainer two is due. Typically that's when two or more candidates go into a second round interview. And then here's where we execute invoice three. Invoice three.

Allie Milbrath [00:40:40]:
I do net 60 because we've got a guarantee that we're working through anyway. So if anything happens it just doesn't really matter as much. But as far as guarantee, it certainly depends on the level of the role. You know, 90 days is pretty typical. Once you get into higher level roles you're going to have to do six months. Sometimes you're going to have to do a year if you're into the C suite recruitment, which I am and I will do that from there. If there is a kill clause, if something happens in their business where they cut this position, there's a kill clause that one. I mean there's a moving target on it.

Allie Milbrath [00:41:16]:
As far as what I charge for that. Again, depending on the level of the role, how much time I'm anticipating spending on it, we put a kill clause in. I've never had to execute that before but it's good to protect yourself from that because, because things happen.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:31]:
What about off limits clauses?

Allie Milbrath [00:41:33]:
What do you mean by off limits?

Benjamin Mena [00:41:35]:
Is there like other companies that you can't touch or.

Allie Milbrath [00:41:39]:
So I can't recruit out of their company for 365 days.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:44]:
Does your contract look a little different? If you have like a multi hire, you're looking at multiple positions there.

Allie Milbrath [00:41:52]:
I word it the same way. It's basically a year from the time we kick off a search. I can't recruit out of their company.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:00]:
And for those listening like that fall off term or that kill clause, if they kill it, like what does that actually look like?

Allie Milbrath [00:42:09]:
Like you need to have wording in your contract if they were to kill the search because you might work on it for three months and for whatever reason, you know, something changes internally. So it's literally saying in, you know, if in any event you want to. I forget the wording that's used. It's very lawyer y. But basically if you want to cancel the position, there will be this fee attached to that decision. So again I haven't had to execute on it. But it's good to have it in there because it keeps your clients honest and it protects you from putting weeks or months into a search and not getting that end fee.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:46]:
Your guarantees are they typically a replacement or is a fee guarantee guarantee it's replacement.

Allie Milbrath [00:42:52]:
However, I have added language in there. I had one issue in the past with this and so I decided to put language in. We will replace, we will give you three additional candidates that fit the original profile and if they don't hire those three, basically we're good because what can happen is things change in their business and they actually needed to hire somebody completely different and want to blame you for it. So having that clause in there is important. Otherwise you can just keep going and going.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:23]:
I was going to say, is that why you added in there about the original position?

Allie Milbrath [00:43:26]:
Yes, it's really important that you do that.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:30]:
You just got done listening to Ali's masterclass on going Retained Part one. Make sure to go download part two to finish the rest of the masterclass. You know the resume never tells the full story. Candidates share what really matters during conversations, on calls and interviews, over email. Their motivations, salary expectations, plans to relocate. Most of that detail ends up buried in notes and forgotten. Atlas changes that. It's the AI first recruitment platform built to eliminate admin.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:00]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:44:37]:
Atlas customers have reported over 40% EBITDA growth and over 80% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. It's built for agencies that want to grow without adding more manual work. Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive Listener offer@reruitwithatlas.com thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit, subscribe and leave a rating.